StLunatic88 Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 12 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said: If you have three to five of Batman's top villains, you're likely going to disappoint a lot of fans who may be looking forward to more of a certain villain that ends up taking a backseat to another. Yes, if its just a one off appearance of that character i agree. But I think they are trying to set up an epic Trilogy. And if we just get a taste of Penguin, Catwoman or Riddler in this movie, but they plant seeds and each continue to have important roles in the next 2 installments, that is even more fulfilling than if we just got one movie on them and they disappear for the rest of the series 12 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said: There were a lot of fans who were unhappy that scarecrow took a back seat to Ras al Ghul in Batman Begins, and that was done well to. This really feels like nit-picking, he was the main focus of 2/3 of the movie, he was the most immediate threat to our main characters most of the film, and if we are going to talk about how Batman stories "usually" go, then one of the Rogues working for and completing tasks for the master plan of another Rogue is spot on to what the comics/tv shows always did. Especially a non-physical threat like Scarecrow. To me Dr. Crane, his fear toxin, and the Scarecrow motif was expertly deployed in the Nolan trilogy, so I cant relate to that gripe at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrILL! Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Riddler is so corny tho. That ridiculously silly green suit with ? marks on it is laughable. But if they were to do a Riddler that resembles Se7en’s John Doe, that would be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncofan48 Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, thrILL! said: Riddler is so corny tho. That ridiculously silly green suit with ? marks on it is laughable. But if they were to do a Riddler that resembles Se7en’s John Doe, that would be cool. Yeah I think you could make him a lot more “gritty” and into leaving clues behind for Batman especially if it is going to be more how Batman is the worlds greatest detective etc. Jim Carrey’s riddler wouldn’t go over well in today’s world imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, broncofan48 said: Jim Carrey’s riddler wouldn’t go over well in today’s world imo The Joker is a guy dressed as a Clown . . . if this is how were going to judge Batman foes (corny old representations), then we should just cancel all of it right now Here's a take, if today we got a new joker that Looked like Nicholson's Joker, it would be immediately panned, before we even saw a performance 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncofan48 Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: The Joker is a guy dressed as a Clown . . . if this is how were going to judge Batman foes (corny old representations), then we should just cancel all of it right now Here's a take, if today we got a new joker that Looked like Nicholson's Joker, it would be immediately panned, before we even saw a performance No I’m just saying I don’t really see those takes working in today’s world. I liked Jacks joker, I just don’t feel like audiences are in for campy superhero films Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, broncofan48 said: No I’m just saying I don’t really see those takes working in today’s world. I liked Jacks joker, I just don’t feel like audiences are in for campy superhero films yea, sorry. Shouldnt have quoted you for that one. Im agreeing with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Scarecrow needs more love. Let him be the Arkham Knight version of the character and you have a legendary villain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 5 hours ago, Deadpulse said: You could argue that Joker is actually a supporting character in TDK. If you boil the details away, Harvey Dent is technically the main character. The entire plot revolves around his rise and fall. Batman's entire arc is reactionary to Dent. Joker's entire arc is predicated on Harvey's arc. He wasnt a villain until the 3rd act. He was just Harvey Dent...not Two Face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said: He wasnt a villain until the 3rd act. He was just Harvey Dent...not Two Face. I didnt say villain, I said main character Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 26 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said: He wasnt a villain until the 3rd act. He was just Harvey Dent...not Two Face. And he is still an Antagonist that entire time. Dent and Batman are rarely on the same page, Harvey never trusts him, just like Gordon never really fully trusts Dent either. And obviously Bruce and Harvey are adversaries in a very different way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 2 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: And he is still an Antagonist that entire time. Dent and Batman are rarely on the same page, Harvey never trusts him, just like Gordon never really fully trusts Dent either. And obviously Bruce and Harvey are adversaries in a very different way. He was never the antagonist until the end. He had a love triangle with Bruce and Rachel...and Bruce acted pompous but threw him a fundraiser. And he was ready to give up his freedom so Batman could be free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 (edited) I keep quoting myself when trying to quote @Deadpulse, damn it.... Edited September 26, 2019 by FourThreeMafia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 8 hours ago, Deadpulse said: I didnt say villain, I said main character Fair enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 13 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: Yes, if its just a one off appearance of that character i agree. But I think they are trying to set up an epic Trilogy. And if we just get a taste of Penguin, Catwoman or Riddler in this movie, but they plant seeds and each continue to have important roles in the next 2 installments, that is even more fulfilling than if we just got one movie on them and they disappear for the rest of the series I think some people are misunderstanding my stance here. Im not necessarily against multiple villains, and Ive even said, if some of the villains are just cameos or well written small parts, I think it could be fine. All Im saying is, it can be difficult to juggle multiple villains DEPENDING HOW YOU USE THEM. Too many villains and youre possibly taking focus off of villain many people love. The Dark Knight handled it well, but again, Joker was the only MAIN villain. Scarecrow only made a quick cameo at the beginning that was more of an easter egg than a needed part of the film. Alot of the mobsters were throwaway villains with minimal attention. Regardless, it was all well written and directed, so it worked. However, this is not always the case in Hollywood. Most writers are garbage. Just look at the more recent DC movies. They arent exactly known for that. BvS is pretty much a perfect example of what Im concerned about....trying to cram WAY too much into a 2.5 hour movie to the point where it is a mess. Not saying that will happen with this, but its possible. 13 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: This really feels like nit-picking, he was the main focus of 2/3 of the movie, he was the most immediate threat to our main characters most of the film, and if we are going to talk about how Batman stories "usually" go, then one of the Rogues working for and completing tasks for the master plan of another Rogue is spot on to what the comics/tv shows always did. Especially a non-physical threat like Scarecrow. To me Dr. Crane, his fear toxin, and the Scarecrow motif was expertly deployed in the Nolan trilogy, so I cant relate to that gripe at all I agree. I had no issue with how Scarecrow was used. I just know alot of people felt like, in the end, he was just a lacky for Ras Al Ghul. Kind of the same with TDKR....where many were mad that Bane seemed to just be a henchman for Talia Al Ghul. Not that I had a major issue with either, but it was more about how their conclusions were so abruptly handled. I just dont want to see something like a Venom from SpiderMan 3 incident, where one of the top villains is basically made a sideshow villain with no real development and then disposed of quickly. Such a massively wasted opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 15 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said: He was never the antagonist until the end. I know we are getting back into semantics, but I was pointing out that he was AN Antagonist. Not the Main Antagonist, most stories have more than one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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