AlexGreen#20 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, The LBC said: If they were willing to go really dark (which they won't because, like Marvel, they're still going to maintain the appeal for parents to bring their kids to the movies), I wouldn't mind an introduction of Jason Todd, but only if they were willing to fairly quickly go into an updated version of A Death in the Family. I'd even go so far as to have Joker put up an online poll or something similar (updated version of the 900-number DC put out back in the day letting fans vote on whether Todd should die) and riff something similar to the way the killer in Untraceable operated, such that Todd wouldn't get Joker-gassed unless the poll or number of hits on the stream hit a certain benchmark - so the public (whether they believe it will actually happen or not) ends up as responsible for Robin II's death as Joker is. It gives Batman a moral conflict as to whether these people are worth protecting. While I agree that could be the ground work for a decent movie, it says something about the character that the only noteworthy arc is his death. Edited June 20, 2019 by AlexGreen#20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 9 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: While I agree that could be the ground work for a decent movie, it says something about the character that the only noteworthy arc is his death. Uhh...the Red Hood arc is extremely popular and could be a movie based solely on that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 1 hour ago, FourThreeMafia said: Uhh...the Red Hood arc is extremely popular and could be a movie based solely on that. Fair, this is going to sound idiotic, but I've never really considered them the same character? Other than the shock value of the name, there's nothing to really connect the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 15 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Never advocate for Jason Todd. Or Damian Wayne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Fair, this is going to sound idiotic, but I've never really considered them the same character? Other than the shock value of the name, there's nothing to really connect the two. Without the basis of him being Jason Todd, the Red Hood Character looses a ton of his impact when we are first introduced. Him knowing everything about Batman is a huge part of it, combined with his move to use the Jokers original moniker is the mind F for Batman that we rarely see. I feel like youre missing out on everything that Todd brings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 32 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: Without the basis of him being Jason Todd, the Red Hood Character looses a ton of his impact when we are first introduced. Him knowing everything about Batman is a huge part of it, combined with his move to use the Jokers original moniker is the mind F for Batman that we rarely see. I feel like youre missing out on everything that Todd brings. This is all extremely fair. I just don't like equating characters that are like two decades apart in appearances. I'm well aware it's an illogical take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 I actually think a lot of people would freak out if they went out of their way to change Grayson's race. Jason Todd/Red Hood is awesome. Damian Wayne sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: This is all extremely fair. I just don't like equating characters that are like two decades apart in appearances. I'm well aware it's an illogical take. To your point though, his run as Robin was fairly forgettable. But you need him to be that in order to set up the Red Hood return In my head, we would see the idea of D. Grayson as Robin in the first film; maybe just Alfred mentioning Batman needing help, Bruce saying "D!ck isnt ready, I already made that mistake once" (probably not a flashback, would be kinda cheesy) while Alfred is actually talking about taking Catwoman's help. Then at the end of the movie, as the stinger, a late teens Grayson returns to Wayne manner from his time away at Academy, maybe we even see him suited up for a second. Then in the second film is when we actually see their dynamic, but D!ck is fighting it the whole way; this like this is a "kids costume", and as LBC pointed out How is he supposed to pull off "Robin" when hes attempting to be intimidating (Tyrel Jackson Williams could be really good in something like this, love him on Brockmire) . But also, having a sidekick has become integral for Batman to succeed because the Rouge Gallery Threat is increasing exponentially from the mob (Falcone), some gun runners (Penguin), cat burgles (Catwoman) and a lone eccentric thief (Riddler). Now he has full on gangs, monsters like Croc, psychos like Joker and many more. But in the end Robin needs to be his own man, and thats when we get the Nightwing reveal. Then between 2 and 3 we get hat Nightwing movie, where he is putting his roots down in Bludhaven, tracking down Tony Zucco, taking on Blockbuster. And in that string, when he engages with the Bludhaven PD, some awesome Dudley Soames stuff. We get one cameo from Batman where D!ck comes by for supplies/advice in the Batcave, and we get a quick glimpse/into to Jason Todd already stepping into the Robin role. That way we dont need to spend all that time when we get to Batman 3. Speaking of, the 3rd Batman, I think it would be cool to see them go smaller, when every other Superhero franchise keeps escalating. And thats where we get the Arkham Asylum movie, were Batman is trapped inside. Getting the parallel story of Alfred, Robin (Todd), and even Barbara Gordon trying to help him from the outside. Maybe we get a cameo from Nightwing, for an assist in some battle, but cant stay with Batman as he has to round up the escaped patients (could be the set up for the opening of NW2). And while it seems like the Joker is behind all of this again (since Batman throws him in Arkham at the end of 2) he is actually out on the loose, and its Hugo Strange pulling these strings. But since everyone is focued on the happenings at Arkham, thats how we get The Killing Joke and Death in The Family homage. Joker shows up, shoots Barbara (setting her up as Oracle for a stretch, and using the newer arc of overcoming that injury to take on the Batgirl role) and takes on Jason, obviously wth a crowbar. Its not as planned out as the true "A Death in the Family" storyline, because I dont think they would do that, but he does blow up the area with Barbara is just outside of the radius. (We never see the body, leaves it open to take whatever route is best for his "Resurection" later on) There are a couple Ideas I have between Batman 3 & 4. Since we just went smaller focus, a cool smaller budget movie would be to get a Gotham Central film. Keep expanding the universe, but get back on the ground level seeing the issues inside the Gotham PD. You would have an established Gordon, likely a Bullock, and can bring in Montoya, Allen, and many others. Not every one of these films need to be Multi Hundred Million Dollar budgets. And also throw in another Nightwing film, showing the fall out of the Jokers actions, getting us Brbara's first time as Oracle. Have not fleshed out the arc here, but using some of the lesser "Batman" villains would be cool for Nightwing to explore; Circus of Strange, Flamingo, Prometheus, Anarky, Firefly, Warren White, Deamon Blackfire... There is a cool story to tell somewhere in there. Or just take the easy road and go with Black Mask and the False Face Society. Either way, Id like to set up Tarantula from her as an FBI agent in NW1, further in this one (none of the controversial stuff) and into her crossing lines that D!ck wont. But this leads up to Batman 4, where we finally adapt Hush. Make some adjustments, like instead of Ivy controlling Superman, she controls Nightwing. The Jason Todd/Clayface thing would be really cool. And another movie filled with the Rogues Gallery would be awesome. You could add in some stuff from the other Hush stories, but instead of an amnesia Harvey Dent saving Batman, it would be a rehabilitated Barbara Gordon. (Tommy Elliot is not just a plastic surgeon, he is a full on surgeon who helps heal her) in a stunning reveal, which would lead to her own Batgirl movie. So after the Batgirl movie, where we finally get Barbara in her full Bat-cycle glory, it rolls right into Batman 5, which will be the Under the Red Hood story. Which is what most of us want to see one day on film. Im running out of breath putting this all down, but after B5, we could get a bit of a team up of Nightwing and Red Hood in Nightwing 3, where Blockbuster has put the hit out on D!ck to all the best assassins in the Batman universe, leading to an amazing D!ck/Jason vs Deathstroke fight.Then a follow up Batgirl film (go close to a Birds of Prey type movie) and then a Red Hood lead Gotham Outlaws film where he brings in Arsenal, Huntress and another new character or two, which would work better than a Suicide Squad, as we care about Red Hood, and these are Anti-heros/vigilantes, not full on Villains. And ofcourse I would cap off my Gotham-verse with a final Batman film where the Bat Family finally takes on the Court of Owls. Thats 20 years, 13+ films (depending on what squeals to Gotham Central, Batgirl, and Outlaws you do) and to me would rival the MCU without ever leaving the Batman world Edited June 21, 2019 by StLunatic88 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 16 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Fair, this is going to sound idiotic, but I've never really considered them the same character? Other than the shock value of the name, there's nothing to really connect the two. You never thought of Jason Todd and Red Hood as the same character? Really? Jason Todd being Red Hood is pretty much everything that makes Red Hood such an intriguing and deep character. Jason Todd/Red Hood represents Batmans greatest failure come back to haunt him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrILL! Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 10 hours ago, Bullet Club said: Damian Wayne is awesome. Jason Todd/Red Hood sucks. FIFY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 8 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said: You never thought of Jason Todd and Red Hood as the same character? Really? Jason Todd being Red Hood is pretty much everything that makes Red Hood such an intriguing and deep character. Jason Todd/Red Hood represents Batmans greatest failure come back to haunt him. The unremarkableness of Jason Todd as Robin has always thrown me. Totally get that it's nonsensical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 10 hours ago, thrILL! said: FIFY Couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: The unremarkableness of Jason Todd as Robin has always thrown me. Totally get that it's nonsensical. He was...you're not wrong at all. It was his death that makes his character so remarkable, because it was Batman's biggest failure and changed him and Bruce in dramatic fashion. And his return was remarkable because he pretty much haunted Batman with his past mistakes and messes with his head, and also he knows everything about Batman and trained himself specifically to defeat him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: Couldn't be more wrong if you tried. I mean...its obviously opinion, but I tend to agree. Damien is beyond annoying sometimes. I dont think he sucks...but I'm not his biggest fan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrILL! Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 2 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said: I mean...its obviously opinion, but I tend to agree. Damien is beyond annoying sometimes. I dont think he sucks...but I'm not his biggest fan. He’s far more interesting considering he’s Bruce’s son and bcuz who his mother and grandfather are. Sure, he’s a little prick but Todd was never even remotely as interesting. Jason Todd’s greatest role was getting killed by the Joker and DC crapped all over that by bringing him back. Red Hood is lame for multiple reasons and has just become another cog in the Batman family wheel. Also FWIW, Hush was good only because Jim Lee drew it. The story and writing were meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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