So, the 2019 Chiefs...

[Hunter2_1]

9 hours ago, Boltstrikes said:

I’d do a sig bet that the Chiefs won’t win 13 games and not think twice about it. They are a good team, with a good coach and a rising star at the most important position but winning 13 games in the NFL isn’t easy. 

They didn't even do that last season did they?

I reckon 11, thinking more about it. Which is still, obviously, very good. Going to be fun watching your teams duke it out. 

Edited May 25, 2019 by Hunter2_1

[SBLIII]

10 hours ago, Chiefs_5627 said:

🤦

 

The wait will be long and painful.

[Leoric]

11 hours ago, Shake said:

People are so confident that the Chiefs are going to release Hill. I'm here to tell you that, short of prison time and/or an NFL ban, the Chiefs aren't getting rid of him. They learned their lesson with Kareem Hunt. You cut him and some other team will simply reap the rewards while you get absolutely nothing. They aren't releasing him if they don't have to, and I don't blame them for that

They definitely got burned there. Tried to take the morale high ground (which was commendable) and another team just got better without any of the push back or capital investment.

[Leoric]

10 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

They didn't even do that last season did they?

I reckon 11, thinking more about it. Which is still, obviously, very good. Going to be fun watching your teams duke it out. 

No, which is why my eyes went wide when I saw some posters saying they expected 12+ wins. I will take that bet on any team in the NFL. No team is good enough prior to preseason be expecting 13 wins. There’s just too many random events that can occur that derail a season. I think 11 is a realistic expectation from KC. I’m currently hoping for 10 from the Chargers. Obviously this could change really quick. Mahomes moves a lot. There’s always a risk with QB’s that do that and the drop off if your starting QB goes down and you’re not the Bucs is huge. 

[Dr LBC]

"Better than most people think they will be; not as great as most Chiefs fans think they'll be" seems about right.

[Jakuvious]

1 hour ago, Boltstrikes said:

No, which is why my eyes went wide when I saw some posters saying they expected 12+ wins. I will take that bet on any team in the NFL. No team is good enough prior to preseason be expecting 13 wins. There’s just too many random events that can occur that derail a season. I think 11 is a realistic expectation from KC. I’m currently hoping for 10 from the Chargers. Obviously this could change really quick. Mahomes moves a lot. There’s always a risk with QB’s that do that and the drop off if your starting QB goes down and you’re not the Bucs is huge. 

11 is where I think KC will wind up falling. Defense will be better. Offense will be worse. Team as a whole will be about the same. But 12 wins or more is hard to replicate period.

[Bolts223]

22 hours ago, Buckweath said:

Give Reid and Mahomes a decent Oline and half decent skill position players and Mahomes will ball. That's where I'm at with Mahomes. 

Obviously with each star skill position player lost the offense is a bit worse but just give him what I said above and he's good.

Chargers might wish the Chiefs defense to be as bad as last year but it's not happening.

There is some uncertainty about how good the Chiefs D will be this season because there is so much change but using last year's defense to project what it should be this year is just bad analysis.

The whole coaching staff is new. The scheme is new going from 3-4 to 4-3. Half the Dline is new players and only young players from last year remain.

Two of the top 5 LBs to be are new.

4 of the 5 likely starting secondary players will be new players (trade coming up for a CB).

On paper, I like the Chiefs Dline including depth equal or  a hair better than the Chargers.

When the Chiefs trade for a good CB, the secondaries are pretty similar, maybe the Chargers' a hair better.

The LBs corps is where the Chargers are a step better but they're not world beaters.

All in all, there is uncertainty but I would expect the Chiefs D to be less than 10 spots away from your Chargers D.

 

 

The Chiefs D can easily get worse and it's pretty laughable that you think it is even comparable to the Chargers defense.

First of all - the Chiefs defense was 8th in the league for turnovers forced last year. That is a stat that is extremely inconsistent from year to year and regression in that regard is very likely. (See: the Chargers defense from 2017 to 2018)

Second of all - for as bad as Chiefs fans like to claim the Bob Sutton defenses were, you literally hired a guy who was the architect of two of the worst defenses in recent history in the 2012 Saints and 2015 Giants.

And even if you added Gilmore to your secondary it wouldn't be as good as ours, or even in the ballpark.

For some figures on our secondary:

PFF graded Derwin James as the 5th best safety in 2018, Mathieu was graded as the 22nd best

PFF graded Desmond King as the 2nd best corner in 2018, Kendall Fuller was graded as the 30th.

PFF graded Casey Hayward as the 21st best corner in 2018, Orlando Scandrick was graded as the 40th.

That isn't to even mention that we invested a 2nd round pick into another safety.

Your D-line is good, no doubt. The Chargers D-line was without it's MVP for half the year, and even once Bosa came back he was never really 100%. The foot injury kept him from doing most of his training, and he was not really in football shape even once he was back. Expect Bosa to be back to 100% this year. That also doesn't even mention that we spent our first round pick on an interior D-lineman. Also if we're going to talk about speculation in terms of players our teams might add to their defense, the Chargers have been among the teams interested in Gerald McCoy.

Like there is literally nowhere on defense where you are better. Even where your defense is good, ours is better. Where your defense is weak, we are significantly better. And to act as if there is no room for the Chiefs defense to get worse than last year when they were actually generating quite a few turnovers which allowed the offense to get even more scores than it otherwise would have been able to is dishonest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2019 by Bolts223

[Jakuvious]

3 minutes ago, Bolts223 said:

First of all - the Chiefs defense was 8th in the league for turnovers forced last year. That is a stat that is extremely inconsistent from year to year and regression in that regard is very likely. (See: the Chargers defense from 2017 to 2018)

People keep saying this about either our number of turnovers forced or our turnover differential, but those numbers have been incredibly consistent since Reid took over the team. Them being inconsistent for your team does not mean they are for ours. 2014 is the only year under Reid we have not forced at least 26 turnovers. Last year's 27 is standard for us.

[Bolts223]

3 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

People keep saying this about either our number of turnovers forced or our turnover differential, but those numbers have been incredibly consistent since Reid took over the team. Them being inconsistent for your team does not mean they are for ours. 2014 is the only year under Reid we have not forced at least 26 turnovers. Last year's 27 is standard for us.

Andy Reid is a more offensive minded coach anyways. Something tells me that consistency had more to do with Bob Sutton who had been there from 2013-2018 rather than Andy Reid.

That isn't to bring up the immense personnel changes that have also taken place this offseason.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Bolts223

[Jakuvious]

18 minutes ago, Bolts223 said:

Andy Reid is a more offensive minded coach anyways. Something tells me that consistency had more to do with Bob Sutton who had been there from 2013-2018 rather than Andy Reid.

That isn't to bring up the immense personnel changes that have also taken place this offseason.

In the 3 years Sutton was a DC prior to coming to KC, his team was bottom 10 in takeaways twice. Reid's teams were great at takeaways going back to Philly. I know he is primarily an offensive coach, but some things do come down to culture and team identity. Not to mention just overall quality. The team being good in general leads to them being ahead in games which leads to more turnover opportunities.

As for the personnel changes....really couldn't care less in that regard. We've gone through so many turnover leaders in that 6 year stretch. We make it up anyways. We had 16 INTs in 2017. 12 of them were from players not on the roster in 2018. We still managed 15 INTs anyway. We've been through Demps and Coleman and Peters and Nelson as INT leaders in that time. Never miss a beat. Ford forced 7 fumbles last year. The year before that 7 came from Peters and Jones. The year before, no single player had more than 2 yet the roster still managed 16.

Point being, you say this is volatile year to year. Regression is expected. But we've been top 10 in giveaways, top 10 in takeaways, and top 10 in turnover differential basically every year Reid has been head coach. I'd be legitimately surprised if that doesn't remain the case next year. It's a core part of Andy Reid coached teams (save for the couple in Philly where he was going through 3 or 4 QBs in a single year. I don't really blame him for Koy Detmer and Mike McMahon throwing a bunch of INTs.)

 

These are the kind of arguments I see, where people say we can't sustain or maintain X, that just don't fundamentally make sense with a brief look at our team's history. I get some criticisms, but when people say we can't maintain the turnover differential we've had for 6 years, or we can't keep a productive running game without Kareem Hunt, or that we're going to forget how to force fumbles without Dee Ford (despite that being the only year the dude generated any turnovers) it's just baffling. This team deserves some credit for being well-coached and incredibly good at some of this stuff for a full 6 year stretch.

[Buckweath]

2 hours ago, Bolts223 said:

The Chiefs D can easily get worse and it's pretty laughable that you think it is even comparable to the Chargers defense.

First of all - the Chiefs defense was 8th in the league for turnovers forced last year. That is a stat that is extremely inconsistent from year to year and regression in that regard is very likely. (See: the Chargers defense from 2017 to 2018)

Second of all - for as bad as Chiefs fans like to claim the Bob Sutton defenses were, you literally hired a guy who was the architect of two of the worst defenses in recent history in the 2012 Saints and 2015 Giants.

And even if you added Gilmore to your secondary it wouldn't be as good as ours, or even in the ballpark.

For some figures on our secondary:

PFF graded Derwin James as the 5th best safety in 2018, Mathieu was graded as the 22nd best

PFF graded Desmond King as the 2nd best corner in 2018, Kendall Fuller was graded as the 30th.

PFF graded Casey Hayward as the 21st best corner in 2018, Orlando Scandrick was graded as the 40th.

That isn't to even mention that we invested a 2nd round pick into another safety.

Your D-line is good, no doubt. The Chargers D-line was without it's MVP for half the year, and even once Bosa came back he was never really 100%. The foot injury kept him from doing most of his training, and he was not really in football shape even once he was back. Expect Bosa to be back to 100% this year. That also doesn't even mention that we spent our first round pick on an interior D-lineman. Also if we're going to talk about speculation in terms of players our teams might add to their defense, the Chargers have been among the teams interested in Gerald McCoy.

Like there is literally nowhere on defense where you are better. Even where your defense is good, ours is better. Where your defense is weak, we are significantly better. And to act as if there is no room for the Chiefs defense to get worse than last year when they were actually generating quite a few turnovers which allowed the offense to get even more scores than it otherwise would have been able to is dishonest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is no way the Chiefs D which was #24 overall gets worse. 

Hitchens and Ragland played as bad as you could have expected from them. They cannot be any worse.

The safeties were worst of the league bad and have been replaced.

As for the comparison with the Chargers, I do give the edge to the Chargers for the safeties as James projects to be a bit better than Mathieu. Why would you mention your new 2nd round safety when the Chiefs drafted a safety too like the pick after lol.

When I say the secondaries would be similar, that's indeed if the Chiefs were to get a Patrick Peterson. We know a trade is coming up but dont know yet who it will be.

I'll take Peterson over Hayward. Fuller and King project to be about the same. King was better last year. Fuller was very good and better the year before. Two young players who project to be about the same level next year IMO.

As for the rest of the secondaries, not much difference either. Now I know the Chiefs might not get Peterson or a top CB.

As for the Dline, I think Bosa should be a hair better than Jones but Clark projects to be quite a bit better than Ingram so taking the Chiefs star duo over the Chargers'.

I think Tillery could have a first year similar to Chris Jones' first year. The Chiefs have Nnadi who is a different player but who is a breakout candidate. He will be good trust me. I would project those two to be about equal just looking at next year.

And then the Chiefs have just equal or better depth when you look at the rest of the Dline players. The Chiefs are loaded at that position.

All in all, I do like the Chiefs Dline equal or better than the Chargers but as they say, we will see.

 

[BleedTheClock]

1 hour ago, Buckweath said:

There is no way the Chiefs D which was #24 overall gets worse. 

Hitchens and Ragland played as bad as you could have expected from them. They cannot be any worse.

The safeties were worst of the league bad and have been replaced.

As for the comparison with the Chargers, I do give the edge to the Chargers for the safeties as James projects to be a bit better than Mathieu. Why would you mention your new 2nd round safety when the Chiefs drafted a safety too like the pick after lol.

When I say the secondaries would be similar, that's indeed if the Chiefs were to get a Patrick Peterson. We know a trade is coming up but dont know yet who it will be.

I'll take Peterson over Hayward. Fuller and King project to be about the same. King was better last year. Fuller was very good and better the year before. Two young players who project to be about the same level next year IMO.

As for the rest of the secondaries, not much difference either. Now I know the Chiefs might not get Peterson or a top CB.

As for the Dline, I think Bosa should be a hair better than Jones but Clark projects to be quite a bit better than Ingram so taking the Chiefs star duo over the Chargers'.

I think Tillery could have a first year similar to Chris Jones' first year. The Chiefs have Nnadi who is a different player but who is a breakout candidate. He will be good trust me. I would project those two to be about equal just looking at next year.

And then the Chiefs have just equal or better depth when you look at the rest of the Dline players. The Chiefs are loaded at that position.

All in all, I do like the Chiefs Dline equal or better than the Chargers but as they say, we will see.

 

...you think the Chiefs DL is better than the Chargers? Yikes. 

 

And are you really assuming that you’re going to trade for a top 10 CB? Yikes. 

 

The Chargers defense is 10x as good as the Chiefs. And I like the Chiefs way more than I like LA. It’s asinine to think the Chiefs D is comparable. Your offense is way better, but c’mon your D is going to be the same or worse. It’s still good enough to win a lot of games combined with your O, but you’re off your rocker with some of these takes. 

[Buckweath]

5 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

...you think the Chiefs DL is better than the Chargers? Yikes. 

 

And are you really assuming that you’re going to trade for a top 10 CB? Yikes. 

 

The Chargers defense is 10x as good as the Chiefs. And I like the Chiefs way more than I like LA. It’s asinine to think the Chiefs D is comparable. Your offense is way better, but c’mon your D is going to be the same or worse. It’s still good enough to win a lot of games combined with your O, but you’re off your rocker with some of these takes. 

The Chiefs DL is absolutely equal or better than the Chargers. How many times have I said that in this thread.

I agree the trade for a top 10 CB is unlikely to happen.

The Chargers' D wont be a lot better than the Chiefs' but we will see soon.

I absolutely stand by my statement that the Chiefs will field a powerhouse this year and it wont be all offense.

[Bearerofnews]

18 minutes ago, Buckweath said:

The Chiefs DL is absolutely equal or better than the Chargers. How many times have I said that in this thread.

I agree the trade for a top 10 CB is unlikely to happen.

The Chargers' D wont be a lot better than the Chiefs' but we will see soon.

I absolutely stand by my statement that the Chiefs will field a powerhouse this year and it wont be all offense.

And that's why no one takes you seriously, congrats.

[Chiefer]

 

The Cyborg is coming