So, the 2019 Chiefs...

[Buckweath]

20 hours ago, FrantikRam said:

All about Hill. I picked the middle option but in reality, if Hill is gone, that offense goes from elite to average IMO. He was the best offensive weapon in the NFL last year, easily. Without Hill, Kelce is game planned against and you're relying on average WRs - Mahomes will look like a completely different QB without Hill.

Hill, a WR who is not even the top WR in the game is the difference between the #3 best offense in the history of the game and an average offense. How is it supposed to even make sense?

Losing Hill hurts the offense some but this offense runs through Mahomes and Reid. 

 

[ET80]

1 minute ago, Buckweath said:

Hill, a WR who is not even the top WR in the game is the difference between the #3 best offense in the history of the game and an average offense.  

 

I distinctly remember people trying to make a case for Hill as a top 5 guy. I agreed with that.

He's not Hopkins, Julio or AB, but he's absolutely in that top 5 discussion.

[Buckweath]

16 minutes ago, ET80 said:

I don't think so - some of us look at the defense and don't see much change. Even though it's a bunch of new names, it's all new names on paper, nobody can really say if it's better or the same. You also have a hard charging Chargers squad that proved it could beat KC heads up. 

So much of this is also contingent on Tyreek Hill - pretty much any team that loses their #1 weapon sees a steep decline in what they can do, whether it be the Steelers, Patriots or any other AFC stalwart. You can assume that the offense will continue down such a presence, but nobody else is going to buy that until it's seen first-hand. 

I'm more or less holding out until I see that defense first hand, as well as what a Tyreek-less offense. Even without seeing either, I'm quick to say that KC is a top 3-5 team. That's pretty much being "woke" on a team.

Take is a slight if you must.

Fair opinion.

I personnally believe the Chiefs are every bit as good as the the current odds putting them as a top 2 team to win the SB, the second best odds in the league to make the playoffs after the Patriots and heavy favorites to win the AFC West. I'm pretty sure those odds take into account the Hill situation.

Their Dline projects to be as good or better than the Chargers'. The secondary, once Veach has traded for a good CB, which is a certainty, will be similar to the Chargers. Only at LB do the Chargers have a noticeable advantage. I use the Chargers because I see them being touted to have a great defense this year. I would expect the Chiefs D to be top 10-15 and I don't think top 10 is out of question.

There is a reason they have such good odds and until I see differently, I expect this team to be just great this season.

There's never any guarantee of a SB or anything but 2019 was always to be their year.

 

[SBLIII]

4 minutes ago, ET80 said:

I distinctly remember people trying to make a case for Hill as a top 5 guy. I agreed with that.

He's not Hopkins, Julio or AB, but he's absolutely in that top 5 discussion.

He doesn't have to be the best WR in football but his skillset fits perfectly to KC, Mahomes and Reid. 

[ET80]

3 minutes ago, SBLIII said:

He doesn't have to be the best WR in football but his skillset fits perfectly to KC, Mahomes and Reid. 

Bingo - but it's not a stretch to call him one of the top 5 WRs in football because of this. Sure, you can make arguments for guys like Mike Evans, Odell Beckham Jr, AJ Green, Michael Thomas, etc. But, given how this offense is ran and how Hill is uniquely set up in said offense, he's got a great argument to be here.

[Buckweath]

5 minutes ago, ET80 said:

I distinctly remember people trying to make a case for Hill as a top 5 guy. I agreed with that.

He's not Hopkins, Julio or AB, but he's absolutely in that top 5 discussion.

He is probably top 5 yeah.

My point is no top 5 WR is the difference between a historically good offense and an average offense. 

 

Let's be honest, even if Hill was to play the whole season, this offense will not be as explosive as last year because it was just that good last year. But to go from #3 offense in the history of the game to an average offense because of losing Hill doesn't even make any sense.

It would MAYBE make sense if they had lost Mahomes instead of Hill and I trust you to know that Mahomes is a lot more important to that offense than Hill.

[ET80]

2 minutes ago, Buckweath said:

He is probably top 5 yeah.

My point is no top 5 WR is the difference between a historically good offense and an average offense. 

I cannot begin to express how much I disagree with this statement. This isn't a case where you have a Juju Smith-Schuster waiting in the wings, or a Calvin Ridley to take the pressure off as a threat in his own right; The lack of Hill takes off a presence that had to be accounted for by two (sometimes three) defenders. Defenses will now re-deploy to Travis Kelce, or put into a different zone scheme that will take away Sammy Watkins in a more effective manner. 

Look at Green Bay after Jordy Nelson was lost a few years back - the offense looked good, very good at times. But it clearly lacked the same fire it once had, despite having a top 15 WR in Davante Adams. Aaron Rodgers projects very similarly to Patrick Mahomes, and you saw him decline (albiet slightly) with the loss of his #1.

[HTTRDynasty]

8 minutes ago, Buckweath said:

It would MAYBE make sense if they had lost Mahomes instead of Hill and I trust you to know that Mahomes is a lot more important to that offense than Hill.

Lol @ the "MAYBE".

[Nightime]

6 minutes ago, HTTRG3Dynasty said:

Lol @ the "MAYBE".

Yeah KC would be DIA without Mahomes. 

[RBreezy]

They’ll do what every top Andy Reid team does: breeze through the regular season, but flame out deep in the post-season. 

[Buckweath]

2 minutes ago, ET80 said:

I cannot begin to express how much I disagree with this statement. This isn't a case where you have a Juju Smith-Schuster waiting in the wings, or a Calvin Ridley to take the pressure off as a threat in his own right; The lack of Hill takes off a presence that had to be accounted for by two (sometimes three) defenders. Defenses will now re-deploy to Travis Kelce, or put into a different zone scheme that will take away Sammy Watkins in a more effective manner. 

Look at Green Bay after Jordy Nelson was lost a few years back - the offense looked good, very good at times. But it clearly lacked the same fire it once had, despite having a top 15 WR in Davante Adams. Aaron Rodgers projects very similarly to Patrick Mahomes, and you saw him decline (albiet slightly) with the loss of his #1.

Agree to disagree.

We might very well have a chance to see this Chiefs offense without Hill. I just feel so confident that it will still be one of the top offenses in the league without Hill. I guess that's what Mahomes and Reid will do for you.

You tell me of Green Bay and I think of the Patriots who have all my respect. Brady is getting older but that offense to me was always so much more than any one star skill position player. 

 

 

[ET80]

8 minutes ago, Buckweath said:

Agree to disagree

That's fair, as long as your seeing my train of thought as something that's been proven out over history. Maybe Mahomes breaks the wheel, but it would be the exception, not the norm.

9 minutes ago, Buckweath said:

We might very well have a chance to see this Chiefs offense without Hill. I just feel so confident that it will still be one of the top offenses in the league without Hill. I guess that's what Mahomes and Reid will do for you.

That's fair, and good on you. Nothing like hoping for a huge year going into a season.

9 minutes ago, Buckweath said:

You tell me of Green Bay and I think of the Patriots who have all my respect. Brady is getting older but that offense to me was always so much more than any one star skill position player. 

Brady is an exception, but he's also seen some down years when guys are hurt. His stats dipped a bit when guys like Gronk were out, when he lost Moss, when he lost Welker, Edelman, etc. 

The Patriots still managed to win because they have a Frankenstein defense that always comes at you in some capacity, and Brady has always found function with his RBs as targets (James White is criminally underrated) but there are times where he looks normal. 

[matt27j]

Can't say it would just be average without Hill, but maybe a lot like the Eagles when it was Ago and Mathews as the top guys outside of Ertz. 

The only player in the league that requires more game planning for would be AB. 

[MrOaktown_56]

 

 

 

2

1 hour ago, Buckweath said:

Agree to disagree.

We might very well have a chance to see this Chiefs offense without Hill. I just feel so confident that it will still be one of the top offenses in the league without Hill. I guess that's what Mahomes and Reid will do for you.

You tell me of Green Bay and I think of the Patriots who have all my respect. Brady is getting older but that offense to me was always so much more than any one star skill position player. 

 

 

I don't know if we even watched the same games.

His vertical threat opens up everything underneath, spreads teams out, and aids the run game significantly. Without him, suddenly everything is a lot less scary. Not league average, but not necessarily a top 5-10 lock as you're alluding to either.

[stl4life07]

I believe if Hill isnt playing games for the Chiefs they are easily below the Chargers in the AFCW and barely a playoff team if not missing the playoffs all together. I will give them respect though because of Reid and Mahomes to put them into the playoffs as a wildcard without Hill. 

If Hill is playing games for the Chiefs then they are one of the favorites to come out of the AFC to go to the Superbowl.

Im more on the side that Hill will miss games for the Chiefs if not flat out cut because the Chiefs should have none of this non sense. They dealt with Hunt non sense off the field, Peters non sense mostly came on the field and they dealt with him. So I think they might just deal with Hill non sense and let him go too. Since I believe that will be the case the Chiefs are barely a playoff team this season with the Chargers as the team to win the AFCW.