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2019 CFB/2020 Draft Prospects


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8 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

I see Murray exasperating our issues at ILB. His main issues are in coverage and with play recognition, he's not the surest tackler either. Range is next to meaningless when you have a faulty trigger and can't grasp what you're seeing.

I don't see the logic behind the team moving on from players with near identical issues to Murray in Young & Onwuasor, only to then drop a 1st Round Pick on him. Especially after we improved play at the position with off the street talent, and the team has expressed a clear desire to utilize a platoon at the position. The devaluation of the LB position across the league is practical, particularly for our club. Drafting Murray in the 1st would be a major ? for me, and an allocation of key resources during a prime championship window that EDC would have to answer for in the likely event that Murray doesn't work out.

That would be pretty WTF for sure.

Yeah I can get down with ILB as long as it’s the second round. Has nothing to do with positional value either. I just don’t see either Murray or Queen as the likely BPA for us. Personally I’m higher on Jordyn Brooks than Kenneth Murray, same athleticism, better coverage, and better trigger IMO... he still has flaws in coverage but is still more instinctual. Would have Queen as the top LB and would love him in the second round, but don’t feel he has enough tackling power for me to really trust... but if we HAD to go for ILB in round one, he would be my guy for sure.

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11 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Last minute adjustments, Jonathan Taylor I still like as a player. But I’m thinking I’m lowering him back down to a 4.5 star player vs a low 5 star player, which still puts him on a Chubb level... just can’t decide definitively as to who is better. He’s still my favorite RB in this draft and the best fit for our squad IMO.

Denzel Mims is now my third rated receiver in this draft class, I would rate my current crop of top 15 WRs as follows:

⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️💫

Jerry Jeudy

CeeDee Lamb, Denzel Mims

⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

Henry Ruggs, Jalen Raegor

KJ Hamler, Justin Jefferson

⭐️⭐️⭐️💫

Brandon Aiyuk, Bryan Edwards

Tee Higgins, Michael Pittman Jr

⭐️⭐️⭐️

Donovan Peoples Jones, Darnell Mooney

Lynn Bowden Jr, Laviska Shenault

 

Beyond my top 15 WR options, I might not feel so confident about said receiver being someone to rely on in 2020. Sure they might be still some good receivers, but I wouldn’t put them above Miles Boykin or at least a year two version of Miles Boykin... in fact really just my top 7 players are guys we could come away with from this draft and I would be truly excited about. My top 3 however are the ones I’m most sure of where I feel they all have very high floors as well as high ceilings.

Btw the small star is only a half star and not a full star. I don’t see any 5 star caliber WRs in this class. I really like Jeudy but he’s not at the same level of AJ Green, Larry Fitzgerald, or Calvin Johnson coming out obviously.

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5 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:
 
 
5 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Disagree with Upshaw. I suppose you could say he wasn’t a bust because he was only a second round pick and he was a spealist at least. But considering in that draft a lot of that draft season and during the Senior Bowl enough were perplexed as to who was the better player Courtney Upshaw or Melvin Ingram as both were undersized pass rushers with power.

Not that Ingram was available at our pick, but considering the guy that was his running mates success in the league, can’t help but to be very disappointed with what Upshaw put up here IMO.

I should have clarified that I think we have historically picked "low risk" guys in the second round, and they have often bombed spectacularly.

Looking at the second round historically, we have often selected guys who are described as, "plug and play," "high motor" "low risk," and I think we have hit on three pics since 2002, Ray Rice, Torrey Smith, and KO, and maybe Kruger.  Hayden Hurst falls in the same category but was a first.

2002: Anthony Weaver

2004: Dwan Edwards 

2005: Dan Cody / Adam Terry

2006: Chris Chester

2008: Ray Rice 

2009: Paul Kruger

2010: Sergio Kindle / Terrance Cody

2011: Torrey Smith

2012: Courtney Upshaw / Kelechi Osemele

2013: Arthur Brown

2014: Timmy Jernigan

2015: Maxx Williams

2016: Kamalei Correa

2017: Tyus Bowers

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rav/draft.htm

 

Edited by alfalcone
Upshaw
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5 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Disagree with Upshaw. I suppose you could say he wasn’t a bust because he was only a second round pick and he was a spealist at least. But considering in that draft a lot of that draft season and during the Senior Bowl enough were perplexed as to who was the better player Courtney Upshaw or Melvin Ingram as both were undersized pass rushers with power.

Not that Ingram was available at our pick, but considering the guy that was his running mates success in the league, can’t help but to be very disappointed with what Upshaw put up here IMO.

Upshaw is the type of guy you would call a bust if he were drafted anywhere else.  He was a very solid role player, but didn't live up to his draft status.  

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8 minutes ago, alfalcone said:

Upshaw is the type of guy you would call a bust if he were drafted anywhere else.  He was a very solid role player, but didn't live up to his draft status.  

I agree. He was our first pick in that draft and I expected much more out of him than seemingly eating himself out of the league. Had he been, say a 3rd round pick, I would’ve saw no issue with his production for his pick... but he’s not to the requisite level of my expectations for a high 2nd round pick.

So while Ingram went mid 1st and Upshaw went early 2nd I didn’t see based on their play in college that it was such a huge gap in play, just that neither were the ideal size and frame and it would take specific teams to get past those measurable flaws. At the time I thought it might be a steal to get him that low, but in retrospect that was most definitely not the case.

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10 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

I agree. He was our first pick in that draft and I expected much more out of him than seemingly eating himself out of the league. Had he been, say a 3rd round pick, I would’ve saw no issue with his production for his pick... but he’s not to the requisite level of my expectations for a high 2nd round pick.

So while Ingram went mid 1st and Upshaw went early 2nd I didn’t see based on their play in college that it was such a huge gap in play, just that neither were the ideal size and frame and it would take specific teams to get past those measurable flaws. At the time I thought it might be a steal to get him that low, but in retrospect that was most definitely not the case.

I think there are certain things Ozzie valued in a prospect, age, going to Alabama, etc. that limited a player's upside, and we see this more so with today's analytics.  Where a player is drafted matters.  Had Upshaw been taken in the 4th or 5th we'd view him as the next Jarrett Johnson.

Edited by alfalcone
Upshaw
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5 hours ago, BaltimoreTerp said:

So - with all of the goodwill EDC has built up, who would the 1st round pick who sends this forum into a tailspin of Hayden Hurst proportions?

Gotta be Kenneth Murray, right? Mims would be pretty polarizing as well. 

A.J. Epenesa for me.  I don't think he's athletic enough.

A running back would do the trick as well, but I just don't think any other the RBs in the calls are remotely good enough for this to be considered.

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12 minutes ago, alfalcone said:

A.J. Epenesa for me.  I don't think he's athletic enough.

Are you a little worried then?

A.J. is a pretty Raveny pick. I think there's a strong chance we take him.

Might want to prepare yourself on draft day.

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1 hour ago, DreamKid said:

Are you a little worried then?

A.J. is a pretty Raveny pick. I think there's a strong chance we take him.

Might want to prepare yourself on draft day.

He feels like the type of guy who falls to round 2, we draft him, say he's such a steal. And to my earlier point, the safe, high floor, high motor, bad athlete doesn't pan out. 

I think Raekwon Davis is the most obviously Raveny pick though.

Edited by alfalcone
Raekwon
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5 hours ago, alfalcone said:

I should have clarified that I think we have historically picked "low risk" guys in the second round, and they have often bombed spectacularly.

Looking at the second round historically, we have often selected guys who are described as, "plug and play," "high motor" "low risk," and I think we have hit on three pics since 2002, Ray Rice, Torrey Smith, and KO, and maybe Kruger.  Hayden Hurst falls in the same category but was a first.

2002: Anthony Weaver

2004: Dwan Edwards 

2005: Dan Cody / Adam Terry

2006: Chris Chester

2008: Ray Rice 

2009: Paul Kruger

2010: Sergio Kindle / Terrance Cody

2011: Torrey Smith

2012: Courtney Upshaw / Kelechi Osemele

2013: Arthur Brown

2014: Timmy Jernigan

2015: Maxx Williams

2016: Kamalei Correa

2017: Tyus Bowers

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rav/draft.htm

 

I would only consider the bolded busts. i woulda say 11/17 is probably well above league average!

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Dan Cody and Sergio Kindle as well. The latter's career was derailed before it even got started. 

Terrance Cody looked great under Pagano and his scheme. With Mattison and Pees.... not so much. They were much more reliant on the line creating their own pressure and that obviously wasn't happening with Cody. 

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