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This Ain't Bills Talk 2.0 OT1

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30 minutes ago, LeeEvans said:

Yeah it's odd. Firing GMs after the draft isnt strange but giving him the keys to FA and then firing him is really odd. 

not only that he was the one involved in hiring Gase which is the crazy part. I know the pegulas were very heavily involved in the mcdermott hiring and things were said afterwards that led everyone to believe whaley wasnt the one hiring him.

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Not sure if anyone cares but Bills fans no longer have to hear or deal with Espn's Mike Rodak. I may be the minority or the majority of wanting him gone but I am glad he will no longer be reporting Bills news. No more Boston loving Bills bashing reporting. Some how Buffalo manages to bring a Carolina reporter in Marcel Jacques, I am interested to see his take on Bills reporting. From my understanding he was a reporter for the Panthers the last 2 years so him and Beane/Mcdermott might have not crossed paths on a professional level.

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8 hours ago, soflbillsfan said:

Not sure if anyone cares but Bills fans no longer have to hear or deal with Espn's Mike Rodak. I may be the minority or the majority of wanting him gone but I am glad he will no longer be reporting Bills news. No more Boston loving Bills bashing reporting. Some how Buffalo manages to bring a Carolina reporter in Marcel Jacques, I am interested to see his take on Bills reporting. From my understanding he was a reporter for the Panthers the last 2 years so him and Beane/Mcdermott might have not crossed paths on a professional level.

You are definitely not in the minority. Everyone hates Rodak haha. The fact the new beat writer is going to someone from Carolina is absolutely not surprising haha. 

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11 hours ago, soflbillsfan said:

Not sure if anyone cares but Bills fans no longer have to hear or deal with Espn's Mike Rodak. I may be the minority or the majority of wanting him gone but I am glad he will no longer be reporting Bills news. No more Boston loving Bills bashing reporting. Some how Buffalo manages to bring a Carolina reporter in Marcel Jacques, I am interested to see his take on Bills reporting. From my understanding he was a reporter for the Panthers the last 2 years so him and Beane/Mcdermott might have not crossed paths on a professional level.

He should have been canned years ago. His blatant bias was unprofessional.

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Texans GM Brian Gaines was fired, I feel like that was a raw deal for him as the owner is a whacko and wouldnt let him do his job. It also seemed like O'Brien had it out with him. Anyways I hope the bills bring him back to a similar role he once was in

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On 6/7/2019 at 5:56 PM, soflbillsfan said:

Texans GM Brian Gaines was fired, I feel like that was a raw deal for him as the owner is a whacko and wouldnt let him do his job. It also seemed like O'Brien had it out with him. Anyways I hope the bills bring him back to a similar role he once was in

Yeah that was a weird situation. The Texans seemed like they thought they were going to get the guy from the Pats before they fired Gaine and ended up getting no one. Lol. If anything screams dysfunction, there it is! I thought Gaine actually did a good job there. Hope we can bring him back, but wouldn't be surprised if he ends up on another team's radar for GM.

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On 7/7/2019 at 1:49 PM, leeevans83d said:

Yeah that was a weird situation. The Texans seemed like they thought they were going to get the guy from the Pats before they fired Gaine and ended up getting no one. Lol. If anything screams dysfunction, there it is! I thought Gaine actually did a good job there. Hope we can bring him back, but wouldn't be surprised if he ends up on another team's radar for GM.

well the texans now gave up on giving some one the gm job and have put 4 front office people in charge, talk about dysfunctional. I can only hope the bills take advantage and trade for Clowney before they get their "it" together if you know what i mean.

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3 hours ago, soflbillsfan said:

well the texans now gave up on giving some one the gm job and have put 4 front office people in charge, talk about dysfunctional. I can only hope the bills take advantage and trade for Clowney before they get their "it" together if you know what i mean.

I really hope the Bills stay away from Clowney. This topic has been fan driven and I seriously doubt the Bills are interested in giving up a premium draft pick or two and signing a guy to a 4-5 year deal for 20+ million per season. That is Khalil Mack money and he is not nearly as impactful as Mack. Clowney should be putting up better sack totals then he has, especially with Watt on the other side. I do think that he is better suited playing as a 4-3 DE, but he's got to prove it before I would be willing to bet the farm on him. Hard pass for me.

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3 minutes ago, Billsfaninptown said:

I really hope the Bills stay away from Clowney. This topic has been fan driven and I seriously doubt the Bills are interested in giving up a premium draft pick or two and signing a guy to a 4-5 year deal for 20+ million per season. That is Khalil Mack money and he is not nearly as impactful as Mack. Clowney should be putting up better sack totals then he has, especially with Watt on the other side. I do think that he is better suited playing as a 4-3 DE, but he's got to prove it before I would be willing to bet the farm on him. Hard pass for me.

i see giving up a 1st is not the big issue here. If bills make the move then they are saying they are ready to make playoffs your not going to get a stud pass rusher in the late teens or 20s. The bills have the cap space for the next 4 years before having to pay allen. Keep in mind bills paid Mario williams 100 mil and he only had 2 of his 6 seasons in Houston as a solid pass rusher. the 4 other years were under 10 sacks. Clowney has been in the league 5 years and was injured his rookie year. With the last 2 years coming up strong. I think the scheme plays a huge part in it and believe he is better suited in a 4-3 De as you mentioned. He needs a change of scenery and i think Buffalo would be an ideal spot for him. It may be fan driven but beane/mcdermott will be on the hot seat if they dont get a winning season and adding a pass rusher to the team that can be the answer to what they need opposite to hughes would be a key piece in moving forward this year rather then waiting until next. Clowney sitting out is also going to be interesting too as it is forcing the team to think about future priorities whether it is trading him for a 1st or even just a 2nd since they have no leverage or commit to him which they may not be able to afford since watson is going in to his 3rd year and other key players need to get paid on that team.

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2 minutes ago, soflbillsfan said:

i see giving up a 1st is not the big issue here. If bills make the move then they are saying they are ready to make playoffs your not going to get a stud pass rusher in the late teens or 20s. The bills have the cap space for the next 4 years before having to pay allen. Keep in mind bills paid Mario williams 100 mil and he only had 2 of his 6 seasons in Houston as a solid pass rusher. the 4 other years were under 10 sacks. Clowney has been in the league 5 years and was injured his rookie year. With the last 2 years coming up strong. I think the scheme plays a huge part in it and believe he is better suited in a 4-3 De as you mentioned. He needs a change of scenery and i think Buffalo would be an ideal spot for him. It may be fan driven but beane/mcdermott will be on the hot seat if they dont get a winning season and adding a pass rusher to the team that can be the answer to what they need opposite to hughes would be a key piece in moving forward this year rather then waiting until next. Clowney sitting out is also going to be interesting too as it is forcing the team to think about future priorities whether it is trading him for a 1st or even just a 2nd since they have no leverage or commit to him which they may not be able to afford since watson is going in to his 3rd year and other key players need to get paid on that team.

You can find quality pass rushers in the late first and second rounds. Chris Jones was a 2nd round pick and Danielle Hunter was a 3rd round pick. Both of those guys were top 5 in sacks last year. 1st round picks are extremely valuable, especially with the 5th year option. Just because we have cap space doesn't mean we should throw it at an overrated player. The salary he wants is elite money and he is not elite. I think you're falling in love with the name more than the production. He doesn't have a double digit sack season in his career. I am not sold on Murphy, but apparently McBeane are. If he can get to the 7-9 sack range this year then he will have more value since he's a third of what Clowney wants to be paid, and we don't have to give up a draft pick.

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@Billsfaninptownalso the bills rated 26th in sacks last year. You have Ed Oliver who will probably get what Kyle Williams got or maybe a couple more. Hughes will still have pressure to give and star is a space eater mainly for taking on 2 interior guys or against the run. Shaq Lawson and Trent Murphy have been hot garbage, Murphy may have an excuse with not being fully healed but this is the weakest aspect of the bills defense. if Clowney cost a 1st rd and 100 mil would it matter what it cost, if the bills went from 26th in sacks to top 10? We lost the jets game last year because Darnold had all day to run around and make that td pass if they had an actual pass rusher the bills could have won that game, and there are more examples. I think the biggest issue bills will have this year is the pass rush so to me as a fan i say pay the price and get someone in who can get the job done and not stress over it.

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3 minutes ago, Billsfaninptown said:

You can find quality pass rushers in the late first and second rounds. Chris Jones was a 2nd round pick and Danielle Hunter was a 3rd round pick. Both of those guys were top 5 in sacks last year. 1st round picks are extremely valuable, especially with the 5th year option. Just because we have cap space doesn't mean we should throw it at an overrated player. The salary he wants is elite money and he is not elite. I think you're falling in love with the name more than the production. He doesn't have a double digit sack season in his career. I am not sold on Murphy, but apparently McBeane are. If he can get to the 7-9 sack range this year then he will have more value since he's a third of what Clowney wants to be paid, and we don't have to give up a draft pick.

im in love with what the guy can do on the field he was rated as the 7th best overall pass rusher in the league its not just based on sacks it also involves qb hurries and run stoppage. In the right system i can see him reaching his capability as to why he was taken #1. Just because he didnt get double digit sacks doesnt mean he is not worth the trade. His upside far exceeds any player the bills have at pass rusher. Hughes is getting up there in age and they need a long term answer so why not him? 

As for having a 1st round pick for a 5th year option how is that working out for the bills? Shaq Lawson has done nothing for them and wasnt picked up, the bills traded Watkins didnt get it either. For every one pass rusher you mention i can name 5 that were busts in the 1st round. Im not saying the bills may or may not find one in 2020 draft im saying this is the weakest link to the team going in to the season without addressing it in the offseason. If clowney is made available in training camp for the right price i do not see why you wouldnt pull the trigger on him if you want to win this year. This schedule is one of the easiest ones the bills have been in for awhile and next year is a lot harder so take advantage now and try to go all in and build off of that. 

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36 minutes ago, soflbillsfan said:

im in love with what the guy can do on the field he was rated as the 7th best overall pass rusher in the league its not just based on sacks it also involves qb hurries and run stoppage. In the right system i can see him reaching his capability as to why he was taken #1. Just because he didnt get double digit sacks doesnt mean he is not worth the trade. His upside far exceeds any player the bills have at pass rusher. Hughes is getting up there in age and they need a long term answer so why not him? 

As for having a 1st round pick for a 5th year option how is that working out for the bills? Shaq Lawson has done nothing for them and wasnt picked up, the bills traded Watkins didnt get it either. For every one pass rusher you mention i can name 5 that were busts in the 1st round. Im not saying the bills may or may not find one in 2020 draft im saying this is the weakest link to the team going in to the season without addressing it in the offseason. If clowney is made available in training camp for the right price i do not see why you wouldnt pull the trigger on him if you want to win this year. This schedule is one of the easiest ones the bills have been in for awhile and next year is a lot harder so take advantage now and try to go all in and build off of that. 

We can agree to disagree on Clowney's impact. You bring up players that were drafted by previous regimes in regards to the 5th year option. The 5th year option will likely be very valuable when Tre White, Edmunds, and Allen are eligible. You bring up the schedule and on paper we have a decent schedule, but you never know how things will shake out. Saying that we need to take advantage this year because our schedule is tougher next year is pure speculation.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/11/2019 at 5:14 PM, Billsfaninptown said:

We can agree to disagree on Clowney's impact. You bring up players that were drafted by previous regimes in regards to the 5th year option. The 5th year option will likely be very valuable when Tre White, Edmunds, and Allen are eligible. You bring up the schedule and on paper we have a decent schedule, but you never know how things will shake out. Saying that we need to take advantage this year because our schedule is tougher next year is pure speculation.

Thats the argument I am having, 5th year is nice but the bills havent had a coach that last 5 years to take advantage of this option. So the 5th year option isnt a huge issue for an unstable organization such as the bills. when they have a set coach/gm duo who is consistently winning then they stick around to be able to use these options. This is Beane/McDermotts year to prove to Buffalo and the Pegulas they know what they are doing going after a guy like Clowney imo is far greater then landing someone who may or may not be a bust like Shaq Lawson in the early 20s of the 1st round. Expectations are high for the bills as they tore it down and built it up with a new QB with a defensive mind HC. As of right now the schedule is much easier and its not even just who the bills play its other teams and their situations. The bills have the AFC North, both Steelers and Baltimore have taken a massive step back this offseason compared to what they were. Browns have stepped up and the bengals are the unknown as they had way to much turnaround this offseason. Dolphins are 2 games this year that should be easy wins as their team is a complete overhaul and next year they may land the top pick giving them an opportunity to land a top tier qb. Jets are neck and neck with us on the rebuild but they have a new HC which can lead to mistakes i dont see that happening in 2020 season with Gase. Not to mention the AFC West is going to be a tough situation for KC and LA to battle it out for a wild card spot because both Oakland and Denver have stepped up this offseason. You bring in clowney now it gives you the ability to offer tre, edmunds, and allen the 5 year options as his contract would be towards the end and guarantees will already be paid. If you wait until next year to pick him up or any other top tier pass rusher the cost is going to be much more as the options out there are thin with both Clarke and Demarcus signed leaving only clowney and Yannick as options. Not only that it also means the contract guarantees will be one year later making tough decisions on the 5th years options for guys like Edmunds, and Allen. The best thing to do is stagger the contracts and this year and next offseason have a ton of cap still to be able to give someone like clowney a 5 year deal and putting this year fully guaranteed to eat away at the 5 year 100 mil 45-55 mil in guarantees. Next off season will be as easy to do that 

Edited by soflbillsfan

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