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The Robfather

How All NFL Franchises Fared Over Last 20 Seasons (Best to Worst)

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36 minutes ago, Bolts223 said:

Jets had 3 in a row: 9-7 in 2008, 9-7 in 2009, 11-5 in 2010.

Dolphins were also 11-5 in 2001, 9-7 in 2002, 10-6 in 2003.

Jets were 10-6 in 2001 and 9-7 in 2002.

I don't think anyone claims that the AFC East is a really tough division outside the Pats, the problem is that by any metric imaginable the Pats are just far and away better than any other team in the NFL the last 20 years.

The AFC East was actually a very tough division in the early 2000's when the Pats won the first 3. The AFC in general was a bloodbath between the Pats, Steelers, Ravens, Colts and Chargers.

In 2014 the Bills were an elite defense and nearly made the playoffs. Dolphins were a competent team too. They went 12-4 overall and only 4-2 in the division that year. 

In 2016 they went 14-2 with Brady missing 4 games. Dolphins made playoffs as a wild card. I don't think any division was going to keep this Patriots team from making the SB, 2016 was a pretty down year for the entire NFL as a whole.

2018 they went 11-5 and yes the AFC East was very bad. But they went 7-0 against playoff teams and were forced to go on the road and win against a very tough KC team. Not sure if they necessarily capitalized on a weak division when it didn't even get them HFA.

No doubt the Patriots are a great team.

But I'm not impressed by the rest of their division, even when their teams finished with a winning record, especially recently (2014 Bills, great defense, but no offense with Kyle Orton, 2015 Jets, possibly the best team in this group, 2016 Dolphins, it was a classic Adam Gase team, who won close against the weak team and lost big against better team and 2017 Bills, they make the playoffs by accident!)

Without a doubt, what the patriots have always done with Brady and Belichick is incredible, but the other 3 teams have been very mediocre too for almost 15 years.

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3 minutes ago, Steelersfan43 said:

No doubt the Patriots are a great team.

But I'm not impressed by the rest of their division, even when their teams finished with a winning record, especially recently (2014 Bills, great defense, but no offense with Kyle Orton, 2015 Jets, possibly the best team in this group, 2016 Dolphins, it was a classic Adam Gase team, who won close against the weak team and lost big against better team and 2017 Bills, they make the playoffs by accident!)

Without a doubt, what the patriots have always done with Brady and Belichick is incredible, but the other 3 teams have been very mediocre too for almost 15 years.

Yeah I'm saying that I don't really think putting them in another division would really matter all that much.

If you put them in any NFC division they probably are even more dominant in the 2000's because the toughest consistent competition in the NFC would've been the Reid/McNabb Eagles. Nowhere near as tough as the AFC.

If you put them in the AFC South they dominate that division just like the Colts did during the Peyton Manning years and continue on to dominate it for the 2010's.

If you put them in the AFC West they have some trouble with the Chargers in the mid to late 2000's (When they didn't win any SB's anyways) and I think it's very likely Peyton Manning never signs with the Broncos if he knows he will have to beat Brady/Belichick for the division each year. (Same can be said about Reid and the Chiefs as well)

If you put them in the AFC North that is probably their toughest road, but they have the Steelers # and even though the Ravens play them tough the Ravens almost never have a better record than the Patriots.

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13 hours ago, Rockice_8 said:

It would be better if it wasn't for NE so thanks for that.

Not for Miami. We're home fodder for them :D

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Interesting enough if you take the winning pct over the last 20 years as straight data the AFCE wins out as the best division in football, thanks in large part to the Patriots.

AFCE .525

NFCE .510

AFCS .500

NFCS .498

AFCW .492

AFCN .491

NFCN .489

NFCW .476

 

If you exclude the Patriots and whatever the number 1 team is in all the divisions it ends up looking in my opinion a lot more accurate. The Patriots division even without the Pats is still in the middle of the NFL. Most of the divisons outside of the AFCE have two contenders. 3 divisons have 3. Interesting enough, it's the third place team in each of the divisions that pretty much dictates where the division falls. The AFCW for example, the combined Chargers/Chiefs records after excluding the Broncos makes up for the Raiders. The Patriots success is such a anomaly though that it's hard to get a really good comparison. If you add the Bengals to the AFCE for example, they would be the 4th best team in the division, beating out only the lowly Bills.

 

NFCE .486  (3 teams over .500)

NFCS .483 (3 Teams over .500)

AFCW .469 (3 teams at or over .500)

AFCS .459

AFCE .456

NFCN .454

NFCW .454

AFCN .443

 

Conclusion: The Patriots success has nothing to do with their division. There is a bigger gap between them and the second best team in the NFL then there is between 1 and 2 in any division except the AFCS.

Edited by Boltstrikes

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16 hours ago, Steelersfan43 said:

No doubt the Patriots are a great team.

But I'm not impressed by the rest of their division, even when their teams finished with a winning record, especially recently (2014 Bills, great defense, but no offense with Kyle Orton, 2015 Jets, possibly the best team in this group, 2016 Dolphins, it was a classic Adam Gase team, who won close against the weak team and lost big against better team and 2017 Bills, they make the playoffs by accident!)

Without a doubt, what the patriots have always done with Brady and Belichick is incredible, but the other 3 teams have been very mediocre too for almost 15 years.

So because no other team was a contender it's a cupcake for the Pats?  Not really great logic considering those other teams typically are 0-2 each year having to face the Pats twice or occasionally beat them and go 1-1 at best.  I mean the fact that they hold their own outside the division should be more then enough evidence to show the AFCE why not some gauntlet is also not some walk in the park every year either.

I mean it's not like they had CLE in their division for the past 20 either who PIT/BAL consistently earned 2 easy wins each year.

Edited by Rockice_8

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2 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

So because no other team was a contender it's a cupcake for the Pats?  Not really great logic considering those other teams typically are 0-2 each year having to face the Pats twice or occasionally beat them and go 1-1 at best.

I mean it's not like they had CLE in their division for the past 20 either who PIT/BAL consistently earned 2 easy wins each year.

The Patriots would have been a contender no matter what

But for a team, what is harder ... Winning a division when another team in the division has 12 wins and another at 9-10 and the last team is garbage (like the AFC North in 2011 or the NFC West in 2013) or win a division when the other teams are all average at best but none of its teams are garbage like the Browns were?

It's a different sport, but in Baseball, the AL east has always been a very hard division to win even if the Baltimore Orioles are a dumpster fire right now.

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22 minutes ago, Steelersfan43 said:

The Patriots would have been a contender no matter what

But for a team, what is harder ... Winning a division when another team in the division has 12 wins and another at 9-10 and the last team is garbage (like the AFC North in 2011 or the NFC West in 2013) or win a division when the other teams are all average at best but none of its teams are garbage like the Browns were?

It's a different sport, but in Baseball, the AL east has always been a very hard division to win even if the Baltimore Orioles are a dumpster fire right now.

It's only random seasons that the runner up in the AFC East didn't have 9-10 wins.  For the early part of this century the runner up has had 10+ wins, then the Jets in the early part of this decade did too, and most recently NYJ/MIA/BUF in 2015/2016/2017 had 9+ win seasons.  I mean very rarely has the runner up had 6-7 wins like you are suggesting.

I mean 1 of BUF/NYJ should be in the 9 win range again this year it's just that you need 11+ to win the AFC East because of how good NE is yet again.  

The only thing you need to realize is NE would own any division including the AFCN.  They have owned PIT/BAL over Brady's run so if you think NE wouldn't own the AFCN too then you just don't want to face facts and want to overrate your division.

Edited by Rockice_8

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I can't wait to see how this looks in another 7 years for the Saints.  That means it'll be starting in the Brees era and will continue to whoever they hand the reigns to, but there will be a lot going for them with a strong defense, good/great OL, elite #1 WR, and an elite weapon.

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29 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

It's only random seasons that the runner up in the AFC East didn't have 9-10 wins.  For the early part of this century the runner up has had 10+ wins, then the Jets in the early part of this decade did too, and most recently NYJ/MIA/BUF in 2015/2016/2017 had 9+ win seasons.  I mean very rarely has the runner up had 6-7 wins like you are suggesting.

I mean 1 of BUF/NYJ should be in the 9 win range again this year it's just that you need 11+ to win the AFC East because of how good NE is yet again.  

The only thing you need to realize is NE would own any division including the AFCN.  They have owned PIT/BAL over Brady's run so if you think NE wouldn't own the AFCN too then you just don't want to face facts and want to overrate your division.

The Patriots had not owned the Ravens when Baltimore were a true contender (2008 to 2012) but that's another story, but my comment has nothing to do with the Pats and their dominance,this is more about the other 3 teams.Only 2 teams other than the Pats have won 11 or more games in a season since 2002 in the AFC east and it was the 2008 Dolphins and the 2010 Jets.

The 2015 Jets, 2016 Dolphins and 2017 Bills, I'm sorry but his teams were bad (especially Miami and the Bills) despite their record.I mean, Miami in 2016 was bottom 10 in yards on offense and defense and they had a negative points differencial at -17.

Same thing for the Buffalo Bills in 2017 and it was worse ... 29th in offensive yards, 26th in yards on defense, points differencial of -57, so terrible team that just finished with a winning record and make the playoffs by accident!

You can give a lot of credit on the dominance of the Pats AND say the other 3 teams in the AFC east have been mediocre!..For this year, maybe the Jets or the Bills are going to be much better this year, we'll see, but even if it's the case, it does not change that the other 3 teams have been mediocre for a very long time.

Edited by Steelersfan43

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14 minutes ago, Steelersfan43 said:

The Patriots had not owned the Ravens when Baltimore were a true contender (2008 to 2012) but that's another story, but my comment has nothing to do with the Pats and their dominance,this is more about the other 3 teams.Only 2 teams other than the Pats have won 11 or more games in a season since 2002 in the AFC east and it was the 2008 Dolphins and the 2010 Jets.

The 2015 Jets, 2016 Dolphins and 2017 Bills, I'm sorry but his teams were bad (especially Miami and the Bills) despite their record.I mean, Miami in 2016 was bottom 10 in yards on offense and defense and they had a negative points differencial at -17.

Same thing for the Buffalo Bills in 2017 and it was worse ... 29th in offensive yards, 26th in yards on defense, points differencial of -57, so terrible team that just finished with a winning record and make the playoffs by accident!

You can give a lot of credit on the dominance of the Pats AND say the other 3 teams in the AFC east have been mediocre!

Sorry but you win 10 games in the NFL despite what stats you want to throw out you are a good team.  A win is a win.

That's an arbitrary stat but for context it's only happened 4 times in the AFC N that the second place team has won 11+ games.  When typically the other 3 are 2nd place to the Pats it's not easy to have two teams with 11+ wins in the same division.  No team in the AFCN has been as consistent as NE so while BAL/PIT has their 7-8 win season NE is always at 10+.  If they were in your division you'd have more respect for what it's like to play them 2 times a season.

Cincy and CLE have been mediocre with CLE largely being downright awful so because BAL and PIT have swapped division titles over the past 20 years what it makes that division better?

I mean NYJ owned Cincy in the playoffs most recently and have had far more playoff success then both CIN/CLE outside of PIT/BAL.  No team in the AFCE has been as awful like CLE either.

I guess I agree that the other 3 haven't had long success stretches or been yearly contenders but what is your point?  That NE coasted, that the AFCE is not a good division?

Edited by Rockice_8

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14 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Sorry but you win 10 games in the NFL despite what stats you want to throw out you are a good team.  A win is a win.

That's an arbitrary stat but for context it's only happened 4 times in the AFC N that the second place team has won 11+ games.  When typically the other 3 are 2nd place to the Pats it's not easy to have two teams with 11+ wins in the same division.  

Cincy and CLE have been mediocre with CLE largely being downright awful so because BAL and PIT have swapped division titles over the past 20 years what it makes that division better?

I mean NYJ owned Cincy in the playoffs most recently and have had far more playoff success then both CIN/CLE outside of PIT/BAL.  No team in the AFCE has been as awful like CLE either.

I guess I agree that the other 3 haven't had long success stretches or been yearly contenders but what is your point?  That NE coasted, that the AFCE is not a good division?

The Bengals were a much better team in the regular season that the Jets were for the most part...They made the playoffs 7 times and 6 times with at least 10 wins ... Their problem was that they were not good in big game but for the Jets, outside of 2 years, they did not have much success in the Playoffs.

For the 11 wins or more, it just happened 4 times in the AFC north, but 3 of those times were from 2008 to 2011 when the Steelers and the Ravens were a true contender.

In the NFL, you're always more likely to see a team make the playoffs and have a winning record by accident since the season is way shorter compared to other sports ... Sometimes we see teams in the playoffs in the NFL, even if his teams are not very good ... Nobody will tell me that in 2017, the Bills and Titans were better than the Ravens and Chargers, even if this is the Bills and Titans who made the Playoffs.

Often his teams that make the playoffs or have a winning record by accident have a very bad season after, which is predictable unless of his teams hugely improve their roster during the offseason.

 

Edited by Steelersfan43

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Just now, Steelersfan43 said:

The Bengals were a much better team in the regular season that the Jets were for the most part...They made the playoffs 7 times and 6 times with at least 10 wins ... Their problem was that they were not good in big game but for the Jets, outside of 2 years, they did not have much success in the Playoffs...

In the NFL, you're always more likely to see a team make the playoffs and have a winning record by accident since the season is way shorter compared to other sports ... Sometimes we see teams in the playoffs in the NFL, even if his teams are not very good ... Nobody will tell me that in 2017, the Bills and Titans were better than the Ravens and Chargers, even if this is the Bills and Titans who made the Playoffs.

Often his teams that make the playoffs or have a winning record by accident have a very bad season after, which is predictable unless of his teams hugely improve their roster during the offseason.

 

Again what point are you trying to make that the other teams have been mediocre?  Is it that NE had it easy?  Not true.  Is it that NE wouldn't have dominated the AFCN?  Not true either.

So what is the point here?

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9 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Again what point are you trying to make that the other teams have been mediocre?  Is it that NE had it easy?  Not true.  Is it that NE wouldn't have dominated the AFCN?  Not true either.

So what is the point here?

Many think this AFC east is not bad, which is not true ... This division has been a bottom 3 division almost every year, especially in this decade.

The AFC North has not always been the best division in the NFL, but they have already been (2008 to 2011) ... When it was not the AFC North, it was the NFC west (2012 to 2015) ... But one thing is certain, even if the other 3 AFC East have almost never had awful teams in this division (I think only the 2007 Dolphins had an awful season) they were rarely a true contender and when his teams had a winning record, it was for the most part by accident and they were mediocre the year after once again.

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5 hours ago, Boltstrikes said:

Interesting enough if you take the winning pct over the last 20 years as straight data the AFCE wins out as the best division in football, thanks in large part to the Patriots.

AFCE .525

NFCE .510

AFCS .500

NFCS .498

AFCW .492

AFCN .491

NFCN .489

NFCW .476

 

If you exclude the Patriots and whatever the number 1 team is in all the divisions it ends up looking in my opinion a lot more accurate. The Patriots division even without the Pats is still in the middle of the NFL. Most of the divisons outside of the AFCE have two contenders. 3 divisons have 3. Interesting enough, it's the third place team in each of the divisions that pretty much dictates where the division falls. The AFCW for example, the combined Chargers/Chiefs records after excluding the Broncos makes up for the Raiders. The Patriots success is such a anomaly though that it's hard to get a really good comparison. If you add the Bengals to the AFCE for example, they would be the 4th best team in the division, beating out only the lowly Bills.

 

NFCE .486  (3 teams over .500)

NFCS .483 (3 Teams over .500)

AFCW .469 (3 teams at or over .500)

AFCS .459

AFCE .456

NFCN .454

NFCW .454

AFCN .443

 

Conclusion: The Patriots success has nothing to do with their division. There is a bigger gap between them and the second best team in the NFL then there is between 1 and 2 in any division except the AFCS.

Dayam.

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21 minutes ago, Steelersfan43 said:

Many think this AFC east is not bad, which is not true ... This division has been a bottom 3 division almost every year, especially in this decade.

The AFC North has not always been the best division in the NFL, but they have already been (2008 to 2011) ... When it was not the AFC North, it was the NFC west (2012 to 2015) ... But one thing is certain, even if the other 3 AFC East have almost never had awful teams in this division (I think only the 2007 Dolphins had an awful season) they were rarely a true contender and when his teams had a winning record, it was for the most part by accident and they were mediocre the year after once again.

Still not sure what you point is.  

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