The Adam Shaheen Thread

[WindyCity]

I think we cross our fingers and hope that the foot injury sapped his already limited athletic profile last season and he can be more of a threat if he stays healthy.

I am not confident. I think when someone shows you they can stay healthy and on their feet that expectations need to shift.

 

 

[Heinz D.]

47 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

This is not difficult. Right now Shaheen is providing a terrible return on investment. If he had been picked in the 5th round the investment would be lower and his meager returns would be less of an issue.

As he's done very little so it's hard to argue against that notion, but I think, for Shaheen, the same holds true wherever he was drafted. But that, like your earlier posts, kind of points to this really being The Ryan Pace Thread, doesn't it? I'll ***** again about him not getting more in trade for Howard, if we're airing Pace grievances...

[WindyCity]

21 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

As he's done very little so it's hard to argue against that notion, but I think, for Shaheen, the same holds true wherever he was drafted. But that, like your earlier posts, kind of points to this really being The Ryan Pace Thread, doesn't it? I'll ***** again about him not getting more in trade for Howard, if we're airing Pace grievances...

The bold just isn't true. If Shaheen had been drafted in the 5th round we would be very happy with him plodding along as the 3rd TE and designated blocker and off redzone guy.

 

It is about establishing what Shaheen needs to do to provide that return on the investment that the Bears made. You can focus on Ryan Pace if you would like, but the rest of us will use where he was drafted to establish the bar for what is acceptable return.

Is Shaheen a guy who should be cut? Of course not, his blocking gives him some value as a reserve TE.

But Shaheen was drafted too high for us to accept that he is simply on the roster in a limited role. The Bears can find cheaper, more reliable, and more effective blockers if that is all he is going to be.

[Heinz D.]

1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

But Shaheen was drafted too high for us to accept that he is simply on the roster in a limited role. The Bears can find cheaper, more reliable, and more effective blockers if that is all he is going to be.

We need receptions from the position, too. As @Sugashane pointed out, Burton didn't exactly have a stellar end to last season. So it's really not a given he turns it around. I think if Shaheen has anything less than a decent season, he's probably gone (as I assume the cap hit would be very low). And we'd be looking at a high draft pick, or possibly picks, at TE. 

[WindyCity]

1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

We need receptions from the position, too. As @Sugashane pointed out, Burton didn't exactly have a stellar end to last season. So it's really not a given he turns it around. I think if Shaheen has anything less than a decent season, he's probably gone (as I assume the cap hit would be very low). And we'd be looking at a high draft pick, or possibly picks, at TE. 

Which would be a real problem considering we need cheap replacements at

CB

RG

S

Possibly ILB

[Heinz D.]

3 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Which would be a real problem considering we need cheap replacements at

CB

RG

S

Possibly ILB

Trading away all those picks does have consequences, for sure. Hopefully we won't need replacements at all four positions. Maybe Raymond will work out, and it becomes less of an issue. 

[WindyCity]

1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

Trading away all those picks does have consequences, for sure. Hopefully we won't need replacements at all four positions. Maybe Raymond will work out, and it becomes less of an issue. 

We are going to need replacements at all those spots, but hopefully some of the come from within the team

Prince-Tolliver/Denmark

Long-Coward/Barrs

Clinton-Dix-Bush?

Trevathan-Iggy

[Heinz D.]

12 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

We are going to need replacements at all those spots, but hopefully some of the come from within the team

Prince-Tolliver/Denmark

Long-Coward/Barrs

Clinton-Dix-Bush?

Trevathan-Iggy

I think they're confident Long can be replaced in-house, or there'd be more panic there. I could also see any one of the four veterans accepting a reasonable contract to stay in Chicago. Especially HHCD, provided he got a long enough one, with decent guaranteed money. Would beat bouncing around as a mercenary, I'd think. 

[soulman]

Let's put an end to this he lacks speed and athleticism with some facts in place of personal fantasies OK?

These are Combine results from the four top TE we have on the roster.

Burton: 6'2"/224lbs/31" arm length

Bench: DNL, 40: 4.62, Vert: 30", Broad Jump: 109", 3 cone: 7.14, 20yd Shut.: 4.32

Shaheen: 6'6"/278lbs/33.50" arm length

Bench: 24, 40: 4.79, Vert: 32", Broad Jump: 121", 3 cone: 7.09, 20yd Shut: 4.38

Braunecker: 6'3"/250lbs/32.75" arm length

Bench: 20, 40: 4.73, Vert: 35.5", Broad Jump: 121", 3 cone: 6.90, 20yd Shut: 4.20

Raymond: 6'5"/255lbs/32.625" arm length

Bench: 15, 40: 4.73, Vert: 32", Broad Jump: 109", 3 cone: 7.15, 20yd Shut: 4.39

 

At 4" taller and 50+ lbs heavier I don't think you can even compare Shaheen with Burton period so I'll use Braunecker by proxy.

If Braunecker was the fastest TE in his draft and this years 1st TE pick T J Hockenson also ran a 4.7+ something 40 how does that make Shaheen slow when he weighed in at 25-30 lbs more than either of them.  Noah Fant ran a 4.5 40 at 249 lbs so would that Trey Burton slow who could only muster a 4.62 even lighter by 25 lbs?   If Combine results alone said it all Braunecker should be an Pro Bowl TE by now.  He blew 'em all away at his Combine and matched most of Hockenson's 2019 numbers back in 2016 yet T J was drafted 8th overall vs Braunecker who was an UDFA.

So.....can we please dispense with all of the Shaheen's not fast or athletic enough bull **** and give the kid another year to stay healthy and show what he's capable of?  He'll have plenty of competition in camp alone and if anyone thinks Raymond is all that and a bag of chips well here's his shot at pushing Shaheen to the sidelines and out the door in 2020.  Braunecker will get his shot as well.  But from here on stick to the facts not fantasies.

Edited May 28, 2019 by soulman

[RJ_11]

It's the eye test man, we haven't actually seen Shaheen demonstrate those numbers in the two years he's been here so how can you blame fans for calling him un-athletic (if that's a word)? He's proven nothing to convince people otherwise during his time in Chicago.

I gotta be honest, personally I don't care about the combine at all, I never watch it, never pay attention to any numbers. So I don't care either that two years ago Shaheen looked athletic in a vest and shorts, on the football field he's looked clumsy in space and it's up to Shaheen himself - not his old Combine numbers - to change our viewpoint on him.

Trust me, I hope it happens, but I don't see any evidence of him turning in to some athletic freak all of a sudden. I still think he can be a very good redzone weapon, but right now that's all I see. Prove me wrong, Adam.

[Superman(DH23)]

1 minute ago, RJ_11 said:

It's the eye test man, we haven't actually seen Shaheen demonstrate those numbers in the two years he's been here so how can you blame fans for calling him un-athletic (if that's a word)? He's proven nothing to convince people otherwise during his time in Chicago.

I gotta be honest, personally I don't care about the combine at all, I never watch it, never pay attention to any numbers. So I don't care either that two years ago Shaheen looked athletic in a vest and shorts, on the football field he's looked clumsy in space and it's up to Shaheen himself - not his old Combine numbers - to change our viewpoint on him.

Trust me, I hope it happens, but I don't see any evidence of him turning in to some athletic freak all of a sudden. I still think he can be a very good redzone weapon, but right now that's all I see. Prove me wrong, Adam.

He doesnt have to turn into an athletic freak, he IS an athletic freak.  That's the thing.  You are conflating his injuries and his lack of production with athleticism.  Saying he is unathletic is not valid.  

[WindyCity]

10 hours ago, soulman said:

Let's put an end to this he lacks speed and athleticism with some facts in place of personal fantasies OK?

These are Combine results from the four top TE we have on the roster.

Burton: 6'2"/224lbs/31" arm length

Bench: DNL, 40: 4.62, Vert: 30", Broad Jump: 109", 3 cone: 7.14, 20yd Shut.: 4.32

Shaheen: 6'6"/278lbs/33.50" arm length

Bench: 24, 40: 4.79, Vert: 32", Broad Jump: 121", 3 cone: 7.09, 20yd Shut: 4.38

Braunecker: 6'3"/250lbs/32.75" arm length

Bench: 20, 40: 4.73, Vert: 35.5", Broad Jump: 121", 3 cone: 6.90, 20yd Shut: 4.20

Raymond: 6'5"/255lbs/32.625" arm length

Bench: 15, 40: 4.73, Vert: 32", Broad Jump: 109", 3 cone: 7.15, 20yd Shut: 4.39

 

At 4" taller and 50+ lbs heavier I don't think you can even compare Shaheen with Burton period so I'll use Braunecker by proxy.

If Braunecker was the fastest TE in his draft and this years 1st TE pick T J Hockenson also ran a 4.7+ something 40 how does that make Shaheen slow when he weighed in at 25-30 lbs more than either of them.  Noah Fant ran a 4.5 40 at 249 lbs so would that Trey Burton slow who could only muster a 4.62 even lighter by 25 lbs?   If Combine results alone said it all Braunecker should be an Pro Bowl TE by now.  He blew 'em all away at his Combine and matched most of Hockenson's 2019 numbers back in 2016 yet T J was drafted 8th overall vs Braunecker who was an UDFA.

So.....can we please dispense with all of the Shaheen's not fast or athletic enough bull **** and give the kid another year to stay healthy and show what he's capable of?  He'll have plenty of competition in camp alone and if anyone thinks Raymond is all that and a bag of chips well here's his shot at pushing Shaheen to the sidelines and out the door in 2020.  Braunecker will get his shot as well.  But from here on stick to the facts not fantasies.

The combine is great. 

Until we see them on the field.

On the field he is not fast nor particularly athletic.

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

56 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

He doesnt have to turn into an athletic freak, he IS an athletic freak.  That's the thing.  You are conflating his injuries and his lack of production with athleticism.  Saying he is unathletic is not valid.  

I'm with RJ 100% here;  any elite atheticism just hasn't shown up in production or visually. He does not look fast, he does not look agile. 

I think we have never really seen what he's capable of, a lingering ankle injury can sure limit you, but we've got 2 years of watching him, and none of him looking very good. Hopefully it comes together for him at a time when he's healthy, as I still want to see this "baby gronky" stuff. 

[RJ_11]

58 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

He doesnt have to turn into an athletic freak, he IS an athletic freak.  That's the thing.  You are conflating his injuries and his lack of production with athleticism.  Saying he is unathletic is not valid.  

The player we have seen the last two years is not an athletic freak. The player we saw in preseason before his injury last season was not an athletic freak. Saying he's unathletic is completely valid when all we've seen him do is stumble around and fall over with the ball in his hands.

[WindyCity]

58 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

He doesnt have to turn into an athletic freak, he IS an athletic freak.  That's the thing.  You are conflating his injuries and his lack of production with athleticism.  Saying he is unathletic is not valid.  

He has not shown the athletic ability on the field. Injuries I am sure contributed to it last season, but at no point did I watch him and think, "that is a big athletic player". He does have strong hands and does pretty well in contested catches, but he is contested a lot of the time because he does not have the athletic ability to separate from LBs.