The Adam Shaheen Thread

[WindyCity]

At this moment it is hard to not to see Kellen Davis with better hands when you watch Shaheen.

[soulman]

46 minutes ago, RJ_11 said:

It's the eye test man, we haven't actually seen Shaheen demonstrate those numbers in the two years he's been here so how can you blame fans for calling him un-athletic (if that's a word)? He's proven nothing to convince people otherwise during his time in Chicago.

I gotta be honest, personally I don't care about the combine at all, I never watch it, never pay attention to any numbers. So I don't care either that two years ago Shaheen looked athletic in a vest and shorts, on the football field he's looked clumsy in space and it's up to Shaheen himself - not his old Combine numbers - to change our viewpoint on him.

Trust me, I hope it happens, but I don't see any evidence of him turning in to some athletic freak all of a sudden. I still think he can be a very good redzone weapon, but right now that's all I see. Prove me wrong, Adam.

We've watched a kid who barely played as a rookie yet caught 12 of 14 passes thrown his way for 10.6 ypc and 3 tds and whose blocking scoring was as good as Sims who was signed because of his size and blocking ability.  He as still learning his position and uncertainty slows one down.

Last season he played in only 6 games after having recovered from a serious foot/ankle injury and wasn't even close to 100% when he returned yet caught 5 out of 6 targets for 9.6 ypc and scored another td.  That's 4 tds on only 17 catches.  It took ARob 55 catches to score 4 times.

Neither one of those two was 100% last season and an "eye test" from any experienced fan would have told that story.

You may not care much about the Combine and I also have my own views of it's usefulness but it does reveal factors even in shorts that tell the story about a players speed and athletic traits and Shaheen's story is a good one.  And you don't suddenly become slow and nonathletic at age 24 unless you are injured or still recovering from a serious injury.  If anything he hasn't even hit his physical prime yet. 

So nonsensical stuff like he's slow and clumsy is a non-starter for me.

I agree that he needs to remain healthy and available for an entire season and begin to ascend but he's not even close to hitting his ceiling yet and Pace and Nagy know that.  Fans need to forget about where he was drafted.  He was a relatively inexperienced kid from a Div. II college team everyone knew would take some time to develop and that doesn't happen when your coach won't play you or you miss 65% of a season with an injury.

So basically we need to toss out most of his first two seasons as part of his learning process and focus on how good he looks this summer and during the 2019 season.  He'll have competition for snaps so he'll have to earn them with his performance.  Then by January if Shaheen doesn't break out I'll listen to potential criticism again but not before then.  Bears fans must be the most impatient SOBs on the planet.

[WindyCity]

So basically we need to toss out most of his first two seasons as part of his learning process and focus on how good he looks this summer and during the 2019 season.  He'll have competition for snaps so he'll have to earn them with his performance.  Then by January if Shaheen doesn't break out I'll listen to potential criticism again but not before then.  Bears fans must be the most impatient SOBs on the planet.

Maybe the opposite is true.

Maybe Bears fans are too patient because the team has been starved of talent and we have had to talk ourselves into mediocre players being more than they are?

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it is a duck. Shaheen whether you want to blame it on injuries, lack of athletic tools, big step up in competition, has shown next to nothing in 2 years. This is the NFL, not college, you do not get 2 years to find yourself.

 

 

[dll2000]

I am taking a wait and see approach. 

My gut says this guy, if healthy, isn’t nearly as bad as nay sayers are saying.  

I think he is closer to being an injury prone bust than an ability bust.  

I think key to his game will be finding holes in zones and boxing out on man.  His big plays will come if he can find open areas on field when MT is scrambling and present.  He makes a really nice target in those situations because of his size and soft hands.

He can be a red zone match up problem as well.

Also continuing to improve as a blocker.  

To say he is a bum is really premature.

 I think he will never have yards after catch ability, but he doesn’t need it to be useful if he can do above.  Also, when you are 6’6 you can fall down for 3 yards. Catch it for 5 and you got 8 yards.  

[soulman]

18 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

The combine is great. 

Until we see them on the field.

On the field he is not fast nor particularly athletic.

UNTIL we've seen him uninjured and confident in his role in this offense I'm not gonna accept that evaluation because it's not what I've seen.

You, and others, make a blanket statement about his speed and lack of athletic ability that his Combine results and vids of him playing basketball refute entirely.  You can insist you're right if you like but I've given you facts that say you aren't.  So as I said talk like that is a non-starter for me.

I can accept that despite his physical attributes he may not turn out to be a good football player but we've seen so very little of him I don't know how anyone could say that yet. If he fails to stay healthy and doesn't ascend as a receiver this season then in January I'll re-evaluate him just as Pace and Nagy will do.  But I'm not gonna saddle Shaheen with a bust label now before he's even played an entire year in this offense and IMHO no one else should either.

[RJ_11]

2 minutes ago, soulman said:

We've watched a kid who barely played as a rookie yet caught 12 of 14 passes thrown his way for 10.6 ypc and 3 tds and whose blocking scoring was as good as Sims who was signed because of his size and blocking ability.  He as still learning his position and uncertainty slows one down.

Last season he played in only 6 games after having recovered from a serious foot/ankle injury and wasn't even close to 100% when he returned yet caught 5 out of 6 targets for 9.6 ypc and scored another td.  That's 4 tds on only 17 catches.  It took ARob 55 catches to score 4 times.

Neither one of those two was 100% last season and an "eye test" from any experienced fan would have told that story.

You may not care much about the Combine and I also have my own views of it's usefulness but it does reveal factors even in shorts that tell the story about a players speed and athletic traits and Shaheen's story is a good one.  And you don't suddenly become slow and nonathletic at age 24 unless you are injured or still recovering from a serious injury.  If anything he hasn't even hit his physical prime yet. 

So nonsensical stuff like he's slow and clumsy is a non-starter for me.

I agree that he needs to remain healthy and available for an entire season and begin to ascend but he's not even close to hitting his ceiling yet and Pace and Nagy know that.  Fans need to forget about where he was drafted.  He was a relatively inexperienced kid from a Div. II college team everyone knew would take some time to develop and that doesn't happen when your coach won't play you or you miss 65% of a season with an injury.

So basically we need to toss out most of his first two seasons as part of his learning process and focus on how good he looks this summer and during the 2019 season.  He'll have competition for snaps so he'll have to earn them with his performance.  Then by January if Shaheen doesn't break out I'll listen to potential criticism again but not before then.  Bears fans must be the most impatient SOBs on the planet.

These are the things I actually like about him, like I've said I see him as a big redzone threat. Good hands, great size, throw the ball up to the guy in the back of the endzone and let him just bully defenders. His blocking is good too, I'm not arguing about his hands or his blocking - that's been a pleasant surprise since he was drafted.

Who knows what it is, his own uncertainty about his health like you say? Complete lack of awareness? Injuries taking their toll? But there is no denying that what we have seen on the field from Shaheen is a lack of athleticism and speed.

I'm not saying the guy should be cut or anything, I haven't given up on him. He's the only player we have of that size on the roster right now for one. He's just turned out to be a very different player from the baby Gronk he was touted as.

[soulman]

17 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

 

 

Maybe the opposite is true.

Maybe Bears fans are too patient because the team has been starved of talent and we have had to talk ourselves into mediocre players being more than they are?

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it is a duck. Shaheen whether you want to blame it on injuries, lack of athletic tools, big step up in competition, has shown next to nothing in 2 years. This is the NFL, not college, you do not get 2 years to find yourself.

 

 

That's nonsense.  Every coach will tell us they expect to see a quantum leap in players from year one to year two once they've had an entire year playing in an offense or defense and spent an offseason of NFL conditioning not Combine conditioning.  It's in year two and year three when many hit their stride and typically their ceilings as well.

The problem is Shaheen's rookie year was somewhat of a washout as far as development goes and so was year two due to his injury and being placed on IR so he could not even practice again 'til November.  At best he's had the equivalent of one partial season but in two different offenses under two different coaches only one of whom plans to use him in a manner in which he was drafted to play.

So I'm counting 2019 as his second year and I do expect a quantum leap from him as a player. But regardless I would suggest that his critics get used to seeing him playing both in 2019 and 2020 because I don't expect Pace and Nagy to give up on him while he's still playing on his rookie contract.

Edited May 28, 2019 by soulman

[WindyCity]

10 minutes ago, soulman said:

UNTIL we've seen him uninjured and confident in his role in this offense I'm not gonna accept that evaluation because it's not what I've seen.

You, and others, make a blanket statement about his speed and lack of athletic ability that his Combine results and vids of him playing basketball refute entirely.  You can insist you're right if you like but I've given you facts that say you aren't.  So as I said talk like that is a non-starter for me.

I can accept that despite his physical attributes he may not turn out to be a good football player but we've seen so very little of him I don't know how anyone could say that yet. If he fails to stay healthy and doesn't ascend as a receiver this season then in January I'll re-evaluate him just as Pace and Nagy will do.  But I'm not gonna saddle Shaheen with a bust label now before he's even played an entire year in this offense and IMHO no one else should either.

I have watched him on the NFL level and he is not fast.

His division III basketball highlights mean nothing to me. His combine means little now that we have seen what he does with pads on against defenders. I have watched the games and he is not athletic, he is big, he has strong hands, but he is not running away from anyone on the NFL level. So cling to the combine, I will continue to watch the games and watch LBs run with him pretty easily.

The biggest assumption that you make is that he is going to stay healthy.

He is not a bust. He is a terrible value for where he was picked and he is a 3/4 blocking TE.

[WindyCity]

1 minute ago, soulman said:

That's nonsense.  Every coach will tell us they expect to see a quantum leap in players from year one to year two once they've had an entire year playing in an offense or defense and spent an offseason of NFL conditioning not Combine conditioning.  It's in year two and year three when many hit their stride and typically their ceilings as well.

The problem is Shaheen's rookie year was somewhat of a washout as far as development goes and so was year two due to his injury and being placed on IR so he could not even practice again 'til November.  At best he's had the equivalent of one partial season but in two different offenses under two different coaches only one of whom plans to use him in a manner in which he was drafted to play.

So I'm counting 2019 as his second year and I do expect a quantum leap from his as a player. But regardless I would suggest that his critics get used to seeing him playing both in 2019 and 2020 because I don't expect Pace and Nagy to give up on him while he's still playing on his rookie contract.

No one wants them to give up on him, we want them to stop relying on him as the #2, because he is either injured or not effective or both. 

2 years with little to show for it, but a lot of time in the training room, that to me means he is a long shot to be a contributor that will make him worthy of where he was drafted and being on the field as much as the #2 TE is in this offense.

[dll2000]

Doing homages to Bart Star right now.  

Teammates just said he sucked his first two years in league. 

[WindyCity]

Just now, dll2000 said:

Doing homages to Bart Star right now.  

Teammates just said he sucked his first two years in league. 

Quarterback is a different position.

That was 65 years ago.

[dll2000]

1 minute ago, WindyCity said:

Quarterback is a different position.

That was 65 years ago.

LOL

it just came on the tv and gave me a giggle. On vacation. Last day. 

[WindyCity]

3 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

LOL

it just came on the tv and gave me a giggle. On vacation. Last day. 

I think there is a chance Shaheen could be something, but we are at the point where I do not think it likely at all.

[soulman]

15 minutes ago, RJ_11 said:

These are the things I actually like about him, like I've said I see him as a big redzone threat. Good hands, great size, throw the ball up to the guy in the back of the endzone and let him just bully defenders. His blocking is good too, I'm not arguing about his hands or his blocking - that's been a pleasant surprise since he was drafted.

Who knows what it is, his own uncertainty about his health like you say? Complete lack of awareness? Injuries taking their toll? But there is no denying that what we have seen on the field from Shaheen is a lack of athleticism and speed.

I'm not saying the guy should be cut or anything, I haven't given up on him. He's the only player we have of that size on the roster right now for one. He's just turned out to be a very different player from the baby Gronk he was touted as.

I think we need to drop both the "Baby Gronk" label and where he was drafted.  Shaheen isn't responsible for either any more than Trubisky is for where he was drafted vs Mahomes or Watson and comparing him to Gronkowski in any way other than their physical traits is also unfair.  Just because the media likes to spoon feeds us that kinda bull **** doesn't mean we have to swallow it and ask for more.

What I see is a guy who still learning his position and now needing to hone his receiving skills against players that are much bigger and faster than those he dominated in college.  If he'd come out of a program like 'Bama or Georgia, or an big time ACC program like Clemson or a Big Ten school I would be a little more critical of him but he was a bit of a project when he was drafted and we should all realize that.

Shaheen's role in this offense is now to be an "F"/Slot type TE as he was drafted to be.  If Sowell is taking over the "Y" TE spot then Shaheen should now see far more action in the passing game running seam routes to occupy Safeties and LBs and being used as a safety valve for dump offs.  Mitch needs a dependable receiver in that role so let's give him at least one season to see how he handles it.  That's all I'm saying right now.

[soulman]

21 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

I have watched him on the NFL level and he is not fast.

His division III basketball highlights mean nothing to me. His combine means little now that we have seen what he does with pads on against defenders. I have watched the games and he is not athletic, he is big, he has strong hands, but he is not running away from anyone on the NFL level. So cling to the combine, I will continue to watch the games and watch LBs run with him pretty easily.

The biggest assumption that you make is that he is going to stay healthy.

He is not a bust. He is a terrible value for where he was picked and he is a 3/4 blocking TE.

Fine.  We disagree.  Ring me back in January and we'll take up this debate again but as I've said I'm not gonna evaluate his game beyond what I already have 'til then. 

He's gonna play a lot this season and IMHO mostly as a receiver so you might as well sit back and watch as well.