2020 NFL Draft Thread

[BayRaider]

2 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

Bro I don’t want to get into this tick for tack game today.  I’ve never gone off a PFF score or Rating ever.  I’ve only used their stats.  That’s all their good for. Their egotistical jerks on youtube too, can’t stand them.  But stats are stats and when “opinions” are often just peoples feelings and not centered in anything concrete it’s often good to use data as a tool to make your point.

and you can find 45 players in first rounds or at 19-25 on someone’s big board this time of year.  Your just looking for empirical to support your claim.

furthermore, it seems like your making this personal because I don’t like you personally.  I think he’d be an ok but not good value pick for Minn@25 or Seattle@27 yet you keep implying that I drastically value him low, yadda yadda.  No we have him in the same ballpark and you just are (in my opinion over) projecting potential.

You called him a 5th Rounder and keep thinking it’s an over-the-top terrible idea to draft him. I can’t say they’ll draft him but I can almost guarantee you he’s on the radar for 19 with no trade down. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by BayRaider

[jimkelly02]

5 minutes ago, Trojan said:

Michael Bennett is low key a Dallas FA with Rod Marinelli ties that might be a fit with us for like 3 mil if we signed Randall cheap

I hate that guy.  Total jerk and cancer.  Randall is brining enough potential character issues.  No thanks.  I’d love a player like the old MB but he’s started to decline and I feel this year it’ll speed up.  But id love a longer athletic DT. Just not him.

[Trojan]

I don't want Blacklock unless it's at 80 because at 80 it's amazing value.

The only defensive tackle I want is Derrick Brown and he's the #1 player on my big board. Blacklock isn't as movable imo and then is just a 3tech like Collins and Hurst. Derrick Brown has best player on the team talent.

[jimkelly02]

3 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

You called him a 5th Rounder and keep thinking it’s an over-the-top terrible idea to draft him. I can’t say they’ll draft but I can almost guarantee you he’s on the radar. 

I said he was considered a 5th rounder because he was.  Back around Xmas he was considered a 5th rounder which was criminally low.  Don’t try to play dumb and change my words.  You know I’ve said back then I thought he was a high to mid 2nd rounder and criminally underrated.  I’ve said this specifically to you multiple times.  
 

Your guarantees mean nothing but thanks.  There’s 20+ players in consideration at 19.

Edited April 3, 2020 by jimkelly02

[BayRaider]

If trading down is not an option than I want Jerry Jeudy or Henry Ruggs III at Pick 12. Either or, but I prefer Jeudy. 
 

At 19 with trading down not an option I want Jaylon Johnson or Ross Blacklock. And yes, I do think Johnson is worth Pick 19 and better than most corners in this class. I think Johnson is much higher on teams big boards than fans think. 
 

I do not think Kristian Fulton is a scheme fit nor do I think he’s all that polished. He’s a lot more raw than people think. In my opinion, Fulton goes lower than people expect him to. I’d say 29-35 range.

If this happens I’d be pretty happy. 

[jimkelly02]

2 minutes ago, Trojan said:

I don't want Blacklock unless it's at 80 because at 80 it's amazing value.

The only defensive tackle I want is Derrick Brown and he's the #1 player on my big board. Blacklock isn't as movable imo and then is just a 3tech like Collins and Hurst. Derrick Brown has best player on the team talent.

Besides BR saying I hate Blacklock... I think he actually is quite moveable but do agree with the first part.  Blacklock can play a 0tech 1 gap like Jay Ferguson in Dallas all the way to a 5T.  I really like him as a 4i.  
but he’s he doesn’t ADD that much to the mix we already have to warrant SUCH a high pick.  If we draft him or someone similiar it will be or should be because it’s a value proposition. Not a slight reach.  Just cuz McShay is riding the recent hype wave (this often happens.... a guy will rise and experts jump them up so as to say “oh I was high on them” after the fact but come draft time pull back on their bullishness on Them) doesn’t change the valuation process.

[big_palooka]

29 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Blacklock probably won’t last to 30. Vikings at 22/25, Seattle at 27, and the Titans at 29. Three teams who desperately need help on the interior. And obviously I think Blacklock is way better than you think he is. You spend too much time on PFF Jim from your previous posts. Almost every single other board has Blacklock as a first round talent. He’s #19 on DJ’s. You know, a former NFL scout from three NFL teams, not PFF who is five guys from a football forum who decided to make a website. 
 

I feel DT is a way bigger need than fans think it is. 

You spend too much time using DJ as social proof. From Aiuyuk to Blacklock... you "opinion" is consistently on brand with DJ. Coincidence? 

[jimkelly02]

With as poor as the value at 19 seems like it’ll be I’d much much much rather trade the pick for a 2nd and ‘21 first.  Don’t we all like the extra picks and wouldn’t we like to continue that?  
 

Consider it an investment.  Move back from 19 to the second and get the same tier player maybe even the same one we’d take at 19.  We only have a huge hole at WR and CB1.  We have money to get a stop gap vet in FA.   That extra 1st next year could allow us to trade up for a legit star or a Franchise QB I replace Carr is he fails.  Or trade back in the first and get extra picks to build depth.  Or trade back and get ‘22 picks.  I’ve always felt we should have taken one of the smack/Cooper picks and tried hard to constantly flip it for higher picks next year. Like compounding interest.  NE’s done this with mid round picks.

[G]

2 hours ago, Trojan said:

Is the deal breaker Odell? 

Don't want OBJ even for free. Well maybe for a 3rd LOL HELL NO!!!

[big_palooka]

37 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Let’s also not forget PFF had Ferrell graded as a 2nd Rounder #36 overall player, and still talk down about the selection.

When it comes to DL in particular, PFF is horrible. I think they have Blacklock at 38 when every other site has him Top 30. 

Did you ask your intern friends why the guys in India are being harsh on Blacklock?

#pancakes

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by big_palooka

[NYRaider]

12 minutes ago, Trojan said:

I don't want Blacklock unless it's at 80 because at 80 it's amazing value.

The only defensive tackle I want is Derrick Brown and he's the #1 player on my big board. Blacklock isn't as movable imo and then is just a 3tech like Collins and Hurst. Derrick Brown has best player on the team talent.

Agreed. If we're going to take a DT I'd only want Derrick Brown as well. 

Another ideal scenario would be something like:

* Trade #12 & #80 to Arizona for #8 * 

* Trade #19 to New England for #23 & #98 *

Then take Brown at #8 and AJ Terrell at #23. 

 

[BayRaider]

2 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

You spend too much time using DJ as social proof. From Aiuyuk to Blacklock... you "opinion" is consistently on brand with DJ. Coincidence? 

I use DJ as a reference, a former NFL scout, to show people my opinion isn’t “crazy talk”, which sometimes they treat it as. Same thing with Ferrell at 4 last year, I never mocked him at 4 but I remember saying I’d be “ok” with it and here comes the forum police who think certain things are crazy talk. I remember in this subforum, and only this subforum, my Blacklock and Aiyuk Pro-Posts were treated like they were totally out of “left field” and people had barely even heard of them. 
 

And there is many things I don’t agree with DJ on. I have Gross-Matos at #6 while he didn’t even have him ranked until recently and at #32. Like I said, I only reference him, because some people think I’m like the only person on the planet with certain opinions. 

[BayRaider]

5 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

With as poor as the value at 19 seems like it’ll be I’d much much much rather trade the pick for a 2nd and ‘21 first.  Don’t we all like the extra picks and wouldn’t we like to continue that?  
 

Consider it an investment.  Move back from 19 to the second and get the same tier player maybe even the same one we’d take at 19.  We only have a huge hole at WR and CB1.  We have money to get a stop gap vet in FA.   That extra 1st next year could allow us to trade up for a legit star or a Franchise QB I replace Carr is he fails.  Or trade back in the first and get extra picks to build depth.  Or trade back and get ‘22 picks.  I’ve always felt we should have taken one of the smack/Cooper picks and tried hard to constantly flip it for higher picks next year. Like compounding interest.  NE’s done this with mid round picks.

How would you get a 2021 1st and a 2nd from Pick 19 in the draft? Even Pick 34/44 from the Colts, we’d have to send back a 4th Rounder. 

[NYRaider]

51 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

PJ Hall imo will never take the next step, especially with the small arms. He’s a Reggie pick that Mayock never makes. 

Hall is one of the most physically gifted DT's in the league the jury is still out on him. 

[jimkelly02]

3 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

You spend too much time using DJ as social proof. From Aiuyuk to Blacklock... you "opinion" is consistently on brand with DJ. Coincidence? 

This is what I’m talking about with BR.  It’s all about spinning his narrative.  He can never just respectfully disagree.  His formula for argument is to attack the quality of the posters past comments, attack the sources used to prove their point and then find empirical data or an expert like DJ who he agrees with or takes their ideas. 
If I have a opinion from watching live games and videos (see *) and then when discussing those opinions I’ll look at stats that pff and 2 other sites provide, as I don’t always trust pff stats.  Then again I don’t believe and Then further spread (having included myself in them and attempting to gain credibility by touting my sources in the nfl scouting community) the PffGate conspiracy that they employ Bangladeshi children to score their games.

all I do is use data to back my point, not configure it.

* = I don’t try to overinflate my amateur scouting credentials by saying “watch tape” as BR does... you don’t watch take you watch YouTube videos don’t try and fool yourself.... the WR/CB isn’t even on the screen most times for the middle of the routes... the most important part most often ... obviously catch point and release at line are important but that’s all you often see