2020 NFL Draft Thread

[OG_C2X]

34 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Misspoke, but yeah.

Just making sure I didn't miss a presser lol 

[ragingraider]

On 1/16/2020 at 12:08 AM, ronjon1990 said:

Never going to happen without pulling a Dan Snyder and mortgaging the franchise for the next several seasons. Not after that championship game and the season he had. 

2 1sts to trade up for one of Tua/Burrow a few months ago might have been realistic. But with how the college season played out and the draft order, at this point it would be reckless. 

Joe is going to Cincy. Tua will probably go high, but that hip scares the bejesus out of me. He's talented, but not 2 1sts talented. Not with those ?'s having yet to be resolved. 

We'd be better off trading back with one of the 1sts into the high 20s to try and gain some extra capital to jump back into the 2nd with. Love or Eason would probably still be around in the 20s. Or stand pat with Carr, grab the weapons we really want/need, and wait til next year (I think the overall QB class next year is shaping up to be much better than this year). 

I'm all for using the 2 1sts to our advantage (maybe we trade one for an extra 1st next year?). But what it would take to move into the 1st pick would set us back long term imo.

 

18 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

So was Robert Griffin to many people. Burrow looks really good right now. And it's easy to get high on him. But, no. You're not winning diddly by mortgaging a full draft class. 

The harsh reality is that Joe Burrow rose to superstardom in 1 season following a transfer and a middling season last year. I think he's a bonafide 1st round guy, but still, there is absolutely no way I'd mortgage the franchise for him. 

The list of 1 year wonders who wind up not panning out is extensive enough for me to get excited about someone's prospects without giving up the future for. There's all the reason in the world to question whether or not Joe Burrow is going to pan out in the NFL.

If I'm say, the Bengals, Joe Burrow's superstar ascent is my absolute worst nightmare that may turn into a dream come true, not the other way around. There's no way you can risk NOT taking him with the #1 pick at this point. But he could very easily be just another 1 year wonder who sets your franchise back almost a decade. 

We've seen that game countless times. And you not only think it's a good idea, but that the Bengals would go for it? Would I do it for Joe Montana or Tom Brady? Yes, in retrospect of their proven NFL careers, you bet. But Brady was a late round flier at the same point in his career. Joe was a 3rd rounder. You can't honestly invoke either as reason to trade the house for Joe Burrow and expect to be taken seriously. If anything, it defeats your argument and gives more ammo to someone saying "Heck, lets take Steven Montez in like round 5 and sit him behind the old franchise guy like the Patriots did with Brady and Bledsoe" or "Meh, we can wait until the 3rd where we have 3 picks and see who's available". 

None of the QBs left standing right now were given the Burrow treatment and only Mahomes is a bonafide top-5 right now. So....where you're getting this idea that top-5 QB is necessary to get to a Superbowl is pretty ludicrous. If anything, the teams who are built primarily around superstar QBs were the ones to fall off the quickest.

Ok. Robert Griffin was not the prospect that Burrows is as a complete QB. Griffin also took his team to the playoffs and was an up and coming Lamar Jackson type star before being injured. 

We are in a very different situation for a pro ready rookie QB. We have a pretty solid core group on offense there isn't much missing. Young LT, Framchise C, FA RT stud, two above average guards. We have the RB. We have the TE. we have the role playing receivers. Our offense is a WR1 away from being everything you want. They are for the most part young as well.

Our Dline is young and upcoming. We have a solid starting CB, S. We need some players on this side of the ball and we can get them in FA. A starting LB and CB and some depth guys. We have plenty of cap space to address our needs on this side of the ball

I think Burrow is different in that he does everything well. He has done it against the best competition in the biggest games, He does it with his arm, he does it with his feet, he does it with his mind. He has shown toughness and an elite competitive fire. 

We can sit back and take our WR1 and a solid defensive starter in the first and we will be a better team for it. But, unless we can build one of the great defenses in football history we will be going nowhere. We will be perennial almosts, particularly in a division that has an elite young QB in KC. 

Perhaps, Jordan Love or Eason can be drafted and they will be the next great NFL QB. It is possible. Perhaps, there is someone else out there we aren't even discussing. The issue is, we don't currently have him. Carr is definitely not that guy. We have given him enough time to succeed. Carr's 2019 was statistically better that 2018, but the team was substantially better. He had a better OLine, Better running game, more weapons at receiver, a better defense. We got 3 more wins. Carr did not play well. Carr didn't always play badly. But, we need a QB who is more than just not always terrible. 

We can roll the dice with a third round QB and spend the next three seasons really hoping they pan out, and keep Carr for another season which will only lead to a QB controversy because Carr will be just good enough that some people will say "we just need to surround him with more talent". So, we end up with a young who knows what on the bench and an aging veteran who is just Blah that we already can't seem to get rid of because people want to give him ten years to prove he is just average. Just because 1st round QB's don't always work out, doesn't mean you have more success or a higher percentage of success taking the position later.

This whole topic came up for me because of the talk regarding Trevor Lawrence being an option in 2021. We won't have the draft capital to get Trevor and Burrow is every bit the prospect that Trevor is. We are in a better financial condition with our cap number, expiring contracts, and we have the draft capital to make the bold move this year rather than next.

The surrounding Carr with great talent thing has been going on for awhile. The talent around him will never be good enough because he isn't good enough.

Would the Bengals even do it? Probably not, because they are dumb. They need to do it. They don't have the surrounding cast to help make Burrow successful. The Bengals roster is trash. They are old, and not good. The Oline is miserable. The best players on their team not named Mixon are on the wrong side of thirty. They need picks and probably a coach. This is why QB die who are first overall picks. They go to franchises in this state of disrepair. 

Conversely, our house is clean enough to provide a platform for success. We have the young talent and cap room to survive a year without all of the picks that we thought we would have, and we can still build a better roster through FA. By addressing our glaring need at QB, we make the most important improvement for long term success. 

Last point, if we draft a QB that isn't named Burrow this year, Carr will be our starting QB next year. The Raiders aren't opening on their first game in Las Vegas with Jordan Love as the starter. so, our only chance to cut bait on Carr is to have a marquee replacement.

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by ragingraider

[roi34]

Let's all agree for a change.   Having mayock as gm sure makes the draft a lot more fun!

[RaidersAreOne]

FYI this is one of the new guys in Vegas covering the Raiders. Worth a follow.

[Geezy]

Cinci isn’t coming off of Burrow. 

[drfrey13]

Just reading thru some mocks and and interesting situation came up.  We selected Jeudy at 12 and at 19 Lamb and Ruggs were still available.  Without a LB worth the 19th selection would you be willing to grab another WR if we did not sign any in FA?

[Geezy]

4 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Just reading thru some mocks and and interesting situation came up.  We selected Jeudy at 12 and at 19 Lamb and Ruggs were still available.  Without a LB worth the 19th selection would you be willing to grab another WR if we did not sign any in FA?

Honestly, it’d be tempting. I’d probably look to trade back, but I wouldn’t hate taking two stud WRs. 

[drfrey13]

4 minutes ago, Geezy said:

Honestly, it’d be tempting. I’d probably look to trade back, but I wouldn’t hate taking two stud WRs. 

It would be ridiculous having Jeudy, Lamb, Williams, Waller, Renfrow, Moreau, and Jacobs.  That would be the best collection of weapons in the league.  Now if we only had a QB that did not shoot like a storm trooper.

[Chali21]

28 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

It would be ridiculous having Jeudy, Lamb, Williams, Waller, Renfrow, Moreau, and Jacobs.  That would be the best collection of weapons in the league.  Now if we only had a QB that did not shoot like a storm trooper.

Geez this again. 

Personally i don’t think the Raiders should double dip on the WR position in the first. They could draft BPA at pretty much every other position other than RB, TE, T. 

[drfrey13]

5 minutes ago, Chali21 said:

Geez this again. 

Personally i don’t think the Raiders should double dip on the WR position in the first. They could draft BPA at pretty much every other position other than RB, TE, T. 

Double dipping on any position in the first is not ideal but if we had the chance to get 2 amazing talents at great value it would be tempting.  Over kill but tempting.  The Carr debate will be brought up in just about any conversation in regards to how the team plays because your QB has an impact on the D and controls the offense.  Until proven otherwise there is a lot of evidence that shows he is what is holding us back and also he needs help.  The board is split and do not expect for it to stop until something is accomplished by Carr or the front office makes a move.

[agarcia34]

Travis Etienne going back to Clemson. Deadline is today still waiting on Simmons 

[NCOUGHMAN]

18 minutes ago, agarcia34 said:

Travis Etienne going back to Clemson. Deadline is today still waiting on Simmons 

Moss from LSU entering the draft

[RaidersAreOne]

1 hour ago, drfrey13 said:

Just reading thru some mocks and and interesting situation came up.  We selected Jeudy at 12 and at 19 Lamb and Ruggs were still available.  Without a LB worth the 19th selection would you be willing to grab another WR if we did not sign any in FA?

I asked this a while ago and don't think a single person said yes. I wouldn't be against it as we could cut Williams and save some coin for other positions.

[BayRaider]

57 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Double dipping on any position in the first is not ideal but if we had the chance to get 2 amazing talents at great value it would be tempting.  Over kill but tempting.  The Carr debate will be brought up in just about any conversation in regards to how the team plays because your QB has an impact on the D and controls the offense.  Until proven otherwise there is a lot of evidence that shows he is what is holding us back and also he needs help.  The board is split and do not expect for it to stop until something is accomplished by Carr or the front office makes a move.

Only way I’d entertain it is if it was BPA both times. If Jeudy was at 12 and Ruggs at 19. We’d have to cut Tyrell cause it’s super overkill. 
 

I actually got stuck on this in a mock. I had Jeudy at 12 and Ruggs was available at 19. Almost everyone worth taking was gone. It was basically either a massive reach for Kenneth Murray, Fulton who got destroyed by Clemson, or Ruggs who was head and shoulders the BPA and a Top 15 talent. 
 

Just shows how stacked the WR class is. We will probably take a WR in the 1st and 3rd though, which is the right move. But the BPA situation does make it a topic of debate. 

Edited January 17, 2020 by BayRaider

[Geezy]

I get that there will be a legit WR like Ruggs or Higgins available at 19, but can you really justify passing on Jeudy or Lamb at #12? Only way I pass on those two is if Simmons is also available.