OG_C2X Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 hour ago, jimkelly02 said: You gotta be Queen’s cousin, buddy, agent?? It’s one thing to be high on the guy but holy.... you over inflate his pro’s and totally ignore his con’s. Best MLB Prospect since Willis? Really? Really? Best since ‘07? Best in 13 years? Let’s look at who you claim he’s a better prospect then.... btw, if he was so magnificent why didn’t he start at MLB until week 4... he wasn’t even beating out Michael Divinity! It was Chaisson, Divinity, and Phillips starting at year. if not for Divinity being suspended or whatever it was that caused him not to play for a streak of games mid season, Queen would have only been rotating in. that doesn’t change who Queen is, but it shows his how much his coaches thought of him. ‘19: Devin White#5, Devin Bush#10 ’18: Roquan Smith#8 , Tremaine Edmunds#16, Leighton Vander Esch#19 ’17: Reuben Foster#31 ‘16: Jaylon Smith#34, Myles Jack#36, Darron Lee#20, Deion Jones#52 ’14: CJ Mosley#17 ’12: Luke Kuechly#9, Dont’a Hightower#25 ’10: Rolando McClain#10, Sean Witherspoon#19 ’09: Aaron Curry#4, Brian Cushing#15, James Laurinaitis#35 ’08: Keith Rivers#9, Jerod Mayo#10 ’07: (technically after Willis,,, they were drafted after him, albeit same year)... Lawrence Timmons#15, Jon Beason#25, Paul Posluszny#34 so queen is a better prospect then every single one of these guys at the time of their draft? Come on.... you can’t be that blinded. I wouldn’t mind trading back from 19 and getting Queen if Simmons goes before 7-8 (my driving the trade up for Simmons train), but to think he a generational talent (best prospect in 13 years) is crazy. we all have or had guys we liked far more than most “experts” liked midway thru the draft process. (Examples... I had David Carr as a top overall draft pick his junior year when he was thought of as a middle of the pack QB.. and Sheldon Rankins as a first rounder during his junior year). Nonetheless, you essentially are saying Queens a near perfect MLB prospect. That’s far from true. I think his traits translate to him being a better pro then those guys coming out yes. Divinity was a top 5 LB recruit Queen was not. You just named 23 guys draft in the last 13 years but left out the best of the bunch. Bobby wagner is the best MLB in the NFL. Who had Bobby Wagner as the top MLB in his draft class above Kuechly. (Hint it was me) Queen has every trait that makes Wagner great and more. He is special. Like I said if we sign Littleton I would rather draft Queen then Simmons. And I think very highly of Simmons. He will be more impactful the Derwin James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Raider Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 12 minutes ago, OG_C2X said: He didn't create a turnover all year. Sacks and TFL are a product of playing on a more talented team then everyone else they played. The DL allowed him to run free and un touched through holes they created. He was invisible in the college football playoff game. Also those are irrelevant. Because he plays WAY SLOWER then Queen. Murray has no instinct. Queens anticipation is one of his best attributes. Murray is slow to react and slower then Queen. Queen is so much better the Murray. Murray reminds me to McClain so much when I watch his tape. In what world was the Oklahoma defense so much better than everyone else they played? They gave up nearly 50 touchdowns this past season, hanging around statically with the dominant defenses like IU, Virginia, Old Dominion, Southern Miss, Tulane etc... and they actually gave up more touchdowns than all of those defenses. Their defense is abysmal, largely outside of Murray. He isn't some guy playing alongside a stacked defense. He plays on a team with a phenomenal offense that often put up a lot of points and teams couldn't hang with that pace, but the final four game is a prime example of how bad the overall defense is. Yeah LSU's offense was elite, but OSUs defense was garbage. And I don't think I'd blame Murray for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OG_C2X Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 16 minutes ago, Mr Raider said: In what world was the Oklahoma defense so much better than everyone else they played? They gave up nearly 50 touchdowns this past season, hanging around statically with the dominant defenses like IU, Virginia, Old Dominion, Southern Miss, Tulane etc... and they actually gave up more touchdowns than all of those defenses. Their defense is abysmal, largely outside of Murray. He isn't some guy playing alongside a stacked defense. He plays on a team with a phenomenal offense that often put up a lot of points and teams couldn't hang with that pace, but the final four game is a prime example of how bad the overall defense is. Yeah LSU's offense was elite, but OSUs defense was garbage. And I don't think I'd blame Murray for that. OU DL overmatched nearly every OL they played this season. Go watch every TFL and every Sack he had. He doesn't disengage and win he runs through wide open lanes more often then not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 19 minutes ago, OG_C2X said: I think his traits translate to him being a better pro then those guys coming out yes. Divinity was a top 5 LB recruit Queen was not. You just named 23 guys draft in the last 13 years but left out the best of the bunch. Bobby wagner is the best MLB in the NFL. Who had Bobby Wagner as the top MLB in his draft class above Kuechly. (Hint it was me) Queen has every trait that makes Wagner great and more. He is special. Like I said if we sign Littleton I would rather draft Queen then Simmons. And I think very highly of Simmons. He will be more impactful the Derwin James. Wagner wasnt an elite MLB prospect. He was a solid 2nd tier, 2nd round type prospect. No one expected him to be what he has become. He progressed into being a fantastic player. I excluded him from this list for that reason. What you appear to be doing is not comparing the past prospects at the time they were drafted, but rather seeing how they shaked out and comparing them to an overly optimistic, best case scenario for what you think Queen will become. if you want to say you think Queen will become the best player since Willis, thats one thing. Everyone will disagree but thats ok. But your opinion isnt a fact. Its an opinion based upon a set of facts, observations, conclusions, and projections. You said he’s the best prospect since Willis and that just isnt true. There have been many widely recognized better prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 44 minutes ago, OG_C2X said: Sacks and TFL are a product of playing on a more talented team then everyone else they played. The DL allowed him to run free and un touched through holes they created. He was invisible in the college football playoff game. Your saying Murray is a product of his teammates... erasing any credit for the plays he made... yet the vast majority of Queen’s splash plays he’s unblocked because the NT’s job is to cover the G and C. If someone even just watched highlights they’d see that. Murray isnt trash, Queen isnt the best ever, but I’ll definitely agree Queen seems like a better prospect than Murray (...if Queen is a WILL and Murray is a MLB). This conversation is like a SJW vs a staunch conservative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 16 minutes ago, OG_C2X said: OU DL overmatched nearly every OL they played this season. Go watch every TFL and every Sack he had. He doesn't disengage and win he runs through wide open lanes more often then not. Ummm,,, Most of Queens big plays are like this too. They both benefited from solid DL play and or scheme which allowed for successful run blitzes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 The Divinity only started because he was a 5 star recruit is weeeeakkk. If he was a (redshirtFR/) freshman 5-star kid coming in with tons of press and promise and the coaches wanted to give him experience immediately then that’d be a fair excuse or explanation. But thats not what it was. Divinity was a senior and the coaches knew exactly who he was. Queen was a junior. The coaches had 3 and 2 years to evaluate the players and after all that decided Divinity was going to be more productive or beneficial to the team. clearly, queen is far far the better prospect today ... so thats not the point im trying to make. the point im making is if Queen was this absolutely amazing, change the entire defense he’s on talent that Willis was.... then why wasnt he starting over a late round /udfa prospect like Divinity not even 9? Games ago (im not going to go back and count games, im guestimating)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 7 hours ago, jimkelly02 said: Everything I’ve seen has him expected to get $7million. I’m not talking one source, but many. Maybe he gets less, I just agree with the $7mil estimates. I’ve been saying this for weeks now... we’re not as wealthy cap wise as we all think. After Richard’s deal and factoring in the draft class were at $41.6M. That’s really only $35M because we always leave money in case of a trade, carry some over to next year, or when injuries hit we sign some vets. Everyone wants to throw $15mil at a LB and CB. What about resigning our FA’s. The picture isn’t as bright as we all lead ourselves to believe. Personally, I couldn’t substantiate spending $7mil on a backup QB when a good one can be had for 2 and a pretty good but older one for less than 4. That $7million goes a long ways if not completely gets us a valuable starter. And sure we can cut Jackson and get 9.6M and or Whitehead and get $6.25M but we still are tight on cap space. plus the reality is if Carr goes out for the year I have no faith in Mariotta taking over and bringing us to playoffs. In fact, at this point if Carr gets hurt I’d also rather we rank and get a high draft pick and replace him. We have 54 players under contract already so the draft class won't eat 10M off our cap space. Everytime we sign or draft a guy, it pushes a currently signed player off the top 51. The guys at the bottom have a cap hit around 500k so for the draft class, for example, that's 7 x 500k coming off the top 51. So if the class is at 10M, the real cap hit added is 6.5M. (The numbers aren't accurate but that's in that range). We should have a bit more than 45M in space at this point. Gabe and Whitehead can clear 16M more. With 61M available, we can be active. As far as re-signing our FAs, we've already done most of that by re-signing Incognito, Good, Lawson and Richard (and Hudson during the season). I guess we could still bring back a couple more but i don't see any urgency there. I agree that i wouldn't spend 7M on a backup QB though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) We're in a very good position at #12 for a potential trade down. We may be on the clock when Love and any of the WR's are available. The Colts definitely have a need for both and a team may try and jump them. That'd be beautiful imo. Edited February 12, 2020 by RaidersAreOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agarcia34 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Shenault hurt.. shocker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 10 minutes ago, agarcia34 said: Shenault hurt.. shocker Yup. I hope we stay away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 hour ago, agarcia34 said: Shenault hurt.. shocker Same injury he dealt with in season. Doesn't requirer surgery. What am I missing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 10 hours ago, OG_C2X said: He is going to make Devin Bush look pedestrian next year. You quickly losing what little credibility you did have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 hour ago, RaidersAreOne said: pubic bone inflamed? wtf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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