2020 NFL Draft Thread

[jimkelly02]

1 hour ago, StocktonSav said:

Ive always thought it was the quality of the coaching staff. Top tier staff that coaches up top recruits the right way. Tough and fundamentally sound. No doubt strong corelation with successful teams as well.

I don’t think Mayock “just loves Clemson” players.  It’s more that he values players who succeeded Against top competition and have been well coached.  It kind of just happened as a coincidence that we needed a DE, CB, slot WR and Ferrell, Mullen, and Renfrow were all from Clemson.  I’m sure we could draft a few Clemson guys this year but it also could be players from Oklahoma, Alabama, Clemson, LSU, etc.  

[jimkelly02]

There’s a difference in having a belief in something and knowing it to be a fact.  I can say I think Lambs better/etc but I accept the possibility of being wrong.  The issues people have with certain posters is when the posters severe hubris turns their opinions/beliefs to facts certain future facts.

Edited April 19, 2020 by jimkelly02

[MrOaktown_56]

14 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

How is a Lamb an effective plug and play? His game is based off being physical and contested catches. Yes, he's a solid route runner with ok speed, but that's not the primary asset of his game, and Jeudy and Jefferson do that way, way better than him with more speed. The main selling point on Lamb is his physicality and contested catch ability. He doesn't have the strength for that in the NFL yet. He's not even as strong as guys like Shenault, Reagor, or Mims with similar strength as Jeudy, Jefferson, and Ruggs III.

Not saying Lamb can't add mass, the only thing I was saying is he is the least plug-and-play guy of the 1st Round WR's.

I see him as pretty damn pro ready. I think he's a raider in a few days and i'll be ecstatic.

[BayRaider]

5 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I see him as pretty damn pro ready. I think he's a raider in a few days and i'll be ecstatic.

How is he Pro Ready? He still needs to add a ton of functional strength to play his physical style of game, and he’s not as technical prowess as Jeudy or Jefferson to contribute as effectively as those two in that type of way.
 

Lamb is Pro Ready when 1) He played almost zero press coverage in the Big 12 and 2) Plays a primary physical/contested catch style of football when he still needs to add serious muscle mass in the NFL to do so?

Agree to disagree here. I’d bet the farm on Jeudy and Jefferson having better Rookie Seasons. Not saying Lamb can’t reach his potential later on. 

Edited April 19, 2020 by BayRaider

[MrOaktown_56]

5 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

How is he Pro Ready? He still needs to add a ton of functional strength to play his physical style of game, and he’s not as technical prowess as Jeudy or Jefferson to contribute as effectively as those two in that type of way.
Lamb is Pro Ready when 1) He played almost zero press coverage in the Big 12 and 2) Plays a primary physical/contested catch style of football when he still needs to add serious muscle mass in the NFL to do so?

Agree to disagree here. I’d bet the farm on Jeudy and Jefferson having better Rookie Seasons. Not saying Lamb can’t reach his potential later on. 

He's strong enough right now to get off press. His release game is actually pretty underrated, as is his route running. His hands will allow him to catch nearly everything thrown his way, especially on in breaking routes. His leaping ability and footwork on the sideline will be super valuable playing against smaller corners on the boundary. He'll be a threat on screens and designed YAC plays. He can get stronger like all receivers, but he plays very strong and that isn't going away at the next level. All WR are scheme dependent, but he can be a 1k guy in year one for sure.

[big_palooka]

49 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

You already know this? 

I love when people talk in absolutes about a player that hasn't played an NFL game.

Context is also key here. A guy like Lamb going to the Jets vs. a player like Ruggs going to the 49ers is going yield totally different things. Landing spot and teams ability to develop are not talked about enough in the draft. 

[MrOaktown_56]

4 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I love when people talk in absolutes about a player that hasn't played an NFL game.

Context is also key here. A guy like Lamb going to the Jets vs. a player like Ruggs going to the 49ers is going yield totally different things. Landing spot and teams ability to develop are not talked about enough in the draft. 

Hurts doesn't have NFL accuracy or touch right now either. Lamb would benefit from playing with Carr for sure. He can put the ball in more favorable places on fades/backshoulder throws.

[BayRaider]

@MrOaktown_56 Wasn’t Jerry Jeudy your WR1 all draft season since Late Dec until maybe 3 weeks ago? You were the biggest advocate for Jerry Jeudy on the entire forum. Ironically, 3 weeks ago, is when the media also changed their hype train to Lamb instead of Jeudy. It’s ok to change your mind 100%, but after being so adamant about Jeudy, it was an extreme 360. 
 

I’m still pretty confident Jeudy is the WR1 in this class and will be the first WR off the board. Whether it’s us or a different organization. Can’t guarantee it by any means, and could be wrong, but I’ve always seen Jeudy going 1st. Raiders or not. 

Edited April 19, 2020 by BayRaider

[big_palooka]

37 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

How is a Lamb an effective plug and play? His game is based off being physical and contested catches. Yes, he's a solid route runner with ok speed, but that's not the primary asset of his game, and Jeudy and Jefferson do that way, way better than him with more speed. The main selling point on Lamb is his physicality and contested catch ability. He doesn't have the strength for that in the NFL yet. He's not even as strong as guys like Shenault, Reagor, or Mims with similar strength as Jeudy, Jefferson, and Ruggs III.

Not saying Lamb can't add mass, the only thing I was saying is he is the least plug-and-play guy of the 1st Round WR's.

How are you gauging "strength" anyway? Bench press reps? Because how else would you.

He's a top tier route runner. Great hands. Wins contested catches. Best run after catch WR in the class. And he will be a good red zone target. And the Big 12 arrgument is misguided, because he showed out against both 'Bama and LSU in his career. 

Your stance with Lamb leads me to believe you read a couple blog posts from people who didn't like him and drew a conclusion early on in the process BECAUSE you were pro Jeudy and needed that for your talking points. You always walk the line of player X can't be great, because player Y is. That's common with you and it really shows with the Lamb/Jeudy debate. 

I personally think both will be great. One is just better at certain things than the other and it's a matter of what you want in your offense. 

[MrOaktown_56]

2 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

@MrOaktown_56 Wasn’t Jerry Jeudy your WR1 all draft season since Late Dec until maybe 3 weeks ago? You were the biggest advocate for Jerry Jeudy on the entire forum. Ironically, 3 weeks ago, is when the media also changed their hype train to Lamb instead of Jeudy. It’s ok to change your mind 100%, but after being so adamant about Jeudy, it was an extreme 360. 
 

I’m still pretty confident Jeudy is the WR1 in this class and will be the first WR off the board. Whether it’s us or a different organization. Can’t guarantee it by any means, and could be wrong, but I’ve always seen Jeudy going 1st. Raiders or not. 

I had jeudy as my WR1 because I love him as a prospect. I’ve also been vocal about lamb for several years. I’ve been eyeing him since his freshman year. 

I wouldn’t say I was adamant about jeudy. I think he’s very talented and worthy of WR1 in most classes.

The difference was I went back and focused on lamb and jeudys weaknesses and determined that lambs are more “fixable”. That and I compared both to what I look for in a go to receiver and I felt like lamb matched that.

Eric Crocker ended up making the same switch I did more recently, putting jeudy at 2 and lamb at 1. He’s also not as high on ruggs.

This ranking is also for us. Jeudy is definitely better for some teams than us. 

[big_palooka]

8 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I had jeudy as my WR1 because I love him as a prospect. I’ve also been vocal about lamb for several years. I’ve been eyeing him since his freshman year. 

I wouldn’t say I was adamant about jeudy. I think he’s very talented and worthy of WR1 in most classes.

The difference was I went back and focused on lamb and jeudys weaknesses and determined that lambs are more “fixable”. That and I compared both to what I look for in a go to receiver and I felt like lamb matched that.

Eric Crocker ended up making the same switch I did more recently, putting jeudy at 2 and lamb at 1. He’s also not as high on ruggs.

This ranking is also for us. Jeudy is definitely better for some teams than us. 

For me, Lamb tipped the scales because he's a competitor. I like guys who have that it factor to them. Also, he's great above the rim player which translates to the red zone. I don't see that with the other top guys.

[BayRaider]

11 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I had jeudy as my WR1 because I love him as a prospect. I’ve also been vocal about lamb for several years. I’ve been eyeing him since his freshman year. 

I wouldn’t say I was adamant about jeudy. I think he’s very talented and worthy of WR1 in most classes.

The difference was I went back and focused on lamb and jeudys weaknesses and determined that lambs are more “fixable”. That and I compared both to what I look for in a go to receiver and I felt like lamb matched that.

Eric Crocker ended up making the same switch I did more recently, putting jeudy at 2 and lamb at 1. He’s also not as high on ruggs.

This ranking is also for us. Jeudy is definitely better for some teams than us. 

I don’t agree with the team specific argument. Yes WR and CBs are scheme dependent positions, but I think Jeudy in all likelihood gets selected 1st on draft day because he’s simply a much better prospect than Lamb. 
 

Also, let’s say Broncos trade up to 10 for Jeudy (tons of reports on this lately), or the Jets draft Jeudy at 11, I actually think Mayock might take Ruggs III over Lamb at 12. Definitely not confident in that, or even saying it will happen, but I could certainly see it. 
 

Regardless, put me in the surprised crowd if we select Lamb at 12 with Jeudy still on the board. 

Edited April 19, 2020 by BayRaider

[NYRaider]

3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

 

I keep seeing people here say we should double dip because we'll be able to find a good starter later in the draft. But realistically Lamb, Jeudy, Ruggs, and Jefferson are off of the board in the top 25 picks. Then guys like Aiyuk, Higgins, Shenault, Mims, Reagor, and Pittman are off the board by the mid 2nd round. And guys like KJ Hamler and Chase Claypool are both likely going to be late 2nd round picks as well. 

After those guys there isn't a WR prospect that I see and think wow, this dude is going to be a legit good starter. 

[BayRaider]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

I keep seeing people here say we should double dip because we'll be able to find a good starter later in the draft. But realistically Lamb, Jeudy, Ruggs, and Jefferson are off of the board in the top 25 picks. Then guys like Aiyuk, Higgins, Shenault, Mims, Reagor, and Pittman are off the board by the mid 2nd round. And guys like KJ Hamler and Chase Claypool are both likely going to be late 2nd round picks as well. 

After those guys there isn't a WR prospect that I see and think wow, this dude is going to be a legit good starter. 

I’ve never been a buyer of the double dip WR argument. Although I don’t hate it. We have so many holes for that 3rd Round to fill. And I think grooming a Nickel CB is more important than grooming a slot WR. Plus, Renfrow was decent in the slot last year. Is he upgradeable? Absolutely. But he did well enough. Not to mention the Nelson signing. 
 

3rd Round (assuming we go WR/CB in 1st) I’d like to target DT/S/Nickel CB/EDGE/OG before WR. And possibly Hurts if Mayock and Gruden are bullish on him. 

[jimkelly02]

The argument to double dip on a WR isn’t to get a slot WR it’s to get two starting WRs.  If we could get Lamb at 12 and Pittman in rounds 2/3 we’d be set at WR For years.  Plus the defense got so much money spent on it in FA.  Nickel CB isn’t a massive need.  We have Joyner and Nixon, plus Nick Nelson (who I still have hope for in that role), not to mention Lawson can play slot.  The ability to get a future starting WR at a great value due to depth in the draft is a good idea.  Even if Joyner gets cut next year you can always find nickel CBs for under 5M in FA.