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Karnage84

WRITE THE STORY OF A SEASON: WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN FOR LIONS TO SUCCEED OR FAIL IN 2019

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2 hours ago, Rockcity2 said:

PP has been wanting to be traded for awhile now.. long before the suspension 

True - teams just might have been weary about the contract/compensation.

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2 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

True - teams just might have been weary about the contract/compensation.

I think if they put PP on the market right now even with the suspension they would still get a sweet deal.. ton of its about timing iyam

Hard to get what ur looking for trying to trade right before a draft 

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13 hours ago, Rockcity2 said:

I think if they put PP on the market right now even with the suspension they would still get a sweet deal.. ton of its about timing iyam

Hard to get what ur looking for trying to trade right before a draft 

I would disagree on that. I think you can do very well in a pre-trade draft under the right circumstances. The Cardinals were basically in a position where everyone knew which way they were going and they had practically no room to pivot or leverage. The Dolphins offered them the best deal they were ever going to get.

If you're a team that has evaluated a position group pre-draft and you're not thrilled with who is coming in or you don't want to spend the draft capital to ensure that you get a certain guy then you can absolutely use the draft pick to bring in an established, veteran presence. If you're the team who is looking to rebuild, you can add future draft picks and get more value in the next draft. A team that builds from the draft can use those picks to move up in the current draft, add a player with the additional pick, move down to acquire additional assets.

The only two times other than pre-draft that make a lot of sense are a) if a major injury occurs in the pre-season/early in the season and/or trade deadline when one team is looking to add for a playoff run and the other team is throwing in the towel with an eye towards next season. You can trade a guy early in the season for a bit of a haul, especially a QB (see Bradford trade). You can get very good vet guys on the cheap mid-season like we did with Snacks.

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4 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

I would disagree on that. I think you can do very well in a pre-trade draft under the right circumstances. The Cardinals were basically in a position where everyone knew which way they were going and they had practically no room to pivot or leverage. The Dolphins offered them the best deal they were ever going to get.

If you're a team that has evaluated a position group pre-draft and you're not thrilled with who is coming in or you don't want to spend the draft capital to ensure that you get a certain guy then you can absolutely use the draft pick to bring in an established, veteran presence. If you're the team who is looking to rebuild, you can add future draft picks and get more value in the next draft. A team that builds from the draft can use those picks to move up in the current draft, add a player with the additional pick, move down to acquire additional assets.

The only two times other than pre-draft that make a lot of sense are a) if a major injury occurs in the pre-season/early in the season and/or trade deadline when one team is looking to add for a playoff run and the other team is throwing in the towel with an eye towards next season. You can trade a guy early in the season for a bit of a haul, especially a QB (see Bradford trade). You can get very good vet guys on the cheap mid-season like we did with Snacks.

It may happen your way but I disagree 

Imo you lose value pre draft reguardless..the closer you get to the draft the value goes down bc the team your trading to has leverage.. right now not so much you either want him and pay up or you don't.. there's no way you can claim to find better

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20 hours ago, Rockcity2 said:

If we would of drafted greedy does slay still holdout?

Greedy might be a very good player in the NFL but he didn't fit what the Lions want in the CB position, especially as a willing tackler. So I don't think Greedy makes the difference. Even if we took a guy somewhat high, it's about guaranteed money and security for Slay. So I would say that those two positions are independent and he'd still likely hold out either way.

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On ‎07‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 4:44 PM, Rockcity2 said:

It may happen your way but I disagree 

Imo you lose value pre draft reguardless..the closer you get to the draft the value goes down bc the team your trading to has leverage.. right now not so much you either want him and pay up or you don't.. there's no way you can claim to find better

It all depends on your valuations of the players in the draft class and whether you want to bank on that or not. Do you draft Greedy Williams in the 1st round hoping that he becomes Jalen Ramsey? Or is it better to offer draft capital to the Jaguars to trade for the proven commodity that is Jalen Ramsey?

If it's a weak position group class and you're in a short window you might be more inclined to make the trade. If it's a deep class (like we saw with the DL this year), teams are more inclined to wait on some of the big FA's/trade pieces.

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5 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

Greedy might be a very good player in the NFL but he didn't fit what the Lions want in the CB position, especially as a willing tackler. So I don't think Greedy makes the difference. Even if we took a guy somewhat high, it's about guaranteed money and security for Slay. So I would say that those two positions are independent and he'd still likely hold out either way.

People keep bustin on greedy for his tackling.. slay is not that great at it either.. And especially when he was younger and would often get nicked up.. do they not want slay..... we will see how greedy plays this year and if it really is an actually problem.. there's something to be said about saving yourself for the pros

These two imo are similar 

 

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5 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

It all depends on your valuations of the players in the draft class and whether you want to bank on that or not. Do you draft Greedy Williams in the 1st round hoping that he becomes Jalen Ramsey? Or is it better to offer draft capital to the Jaguars to trade for the proven commodity that is Jalen Ramsey?

If it's a weak position group class and you're in a short window you might be more inclined to make the trade. If it's a deep class (like we saw with the DL this year), teams are more inclined to wait on some of the big FA's/trade pieces.

I would find it very hard to trade my first rd pick right before a draft reguardless of the player unless I felt the draft was weak

 

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7 hours ago, Rockcity2 said:

I would find it very hard to trade my first rd pick right before a draft reguardless of the player unless I felt the draft was weak

 

There are always a half dozen first round trades - teams trading up, teams trading down, teams trading for players (like the Browns and OBJ), teams trading out of the 1st for future picks. It all depends on the team - where they're at competition wise and how they build their rosters.

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7 hours ago, Rockcity2 said:

People keep bustin on greedy for his tackling.. slay is not that great at it either.. And especially when he was younger and would often get nicked up.. do they not want slay..... we will see how greedy plays this year and if it really is an actually problem.. there's something to be said about saving yourself for the pros

These two imo are similar 

 

Greedy also has a sleight frame and could put on some weight. Maybe he was "saving himself for the pros". The Lions weren't the only team to skip over him in the 1st round and a few others in the 2nd. He could wind up being a pro bowler and prove everyone wrong. He could also wind up being a bust. We'll see how it all shakes out.

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59 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

Greedy also has a sleight frame and could put on some weight. Maybe he was "saving himself for the pros". The Lions weren't the only team to skip over him in the 1st round and a few others in the 2nd. He could wind up being a pro bowler and prove everyone wrong. He could also wind up being a bust. We'll see how it all shakes out.

Teams skip over him probably didn't need cb help .. I can't remember but wasn't there only one taken before him and that was 2ndrd..

Draft was just stronger in other areas.. a lot of these team draft for need for some reason anyway.. he went around right where I personally thought he would bc of the talent available 

He's skinny but he definitely has the frame to put on more weight

What you hire these strength and conditioning guys for

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