Bear Looking To Determine Roll For Kevin Tolliver

[soulman]

Chicago Bears: Trying to determine Kevin Toliver’s role in 2019

by Patrick Sheldon 15 hours ago Follow @P_Shels

 

https://dawindycity.com/2019/05/27/chicago-bears-kevin-toliver-role/

How will the Chicago Bears use Kevin Toliver in the 2019 season?

Teams that want to have sustained success as a franchise, as the Chicago Bears do, must capitalize on their draft picks. However, in many cases, that’s not enough. Identifying talent is one thing, but developing them into NFL starters/contributors is another.

Consequently, a fair number of picks never pan out. This reality underscores the importance of maintaining a robust pipeline of undrafted free agents. In some cases, a team can find an extremely talented player after the draft due to perhaps personal issues in their past or even injury history.

One player for the Bears who fell into the former category was defensive back Kevin Toliver II. The highly talented Toliver expected to be drafted somewhere in the middle rounds of the 2018 NFL Draft. However, due to a few red flags related to his character, he went undrafted. That’s when the Bears swooped in and signed him as an UDFA, taking a chance that was well worth the risk considering the paltry $25,000 investment it took to land him.

The risk paid off, as Toliver had a very fine 2018 campaign, filling in nicely for Prince Amukamara while he was injured back in October.

Toliver never looked overwhelmed, or like the moment was too big for him. As a result, some wondered, if not called for, Toliver to get the nod to replace Bryce Callahan this year. The Bears obviously didn’t feel either Toliver or Sherrick McManis we’re ready to step into that role full-time, but still, value Toliver on this team. So what will his role look like in 2019?

For starters, he is going to be competing with Duke Shelley, the Bears sixth-round pick out of Kansas State, for a lot of the same snaps.

Last season Toliver saw 135 snaps on defense, good for almost 13 percent. On special teams, that number was 112 snaps, or 26 percent.

No doubt Shelley will be competing with Toliver for some of those same snaps, but Toliver has two distinct advantages over Shelley.

First, Toliver has the experience. While Pagano will be running a new system, he will maintain a lot of the same terminology. Moreover, Shelley has some issues with his tackling form that he will need to square away to be a serious contender to snag snaps as a cornerback — namely his tendency to lunge at the ballcarrier rather than drive through and finish.

Second, Toliver has the ability to play both in the slot and on the boundaries. He proved as much last season. Shelley’s role at the next level has yet to be determined, and won’t until he gets into training camp and demonstrates his skill set. Perhaps he has the ability to line up at different positions at the next level, but the team already knows Toliver does.

Training camp will be an awful lot of fun this year with a number of interesting position battles emerging, e.g. wide receiver.

However, the battle between Toliver and Shelley will be on to keep an eye on for sure. The loser could be in for a long season of riding the bench. I have a feeling Toliver will prevail, but this one will be fun to watch for sure.

[dll2000]

Tolliver isn’t battling Shelley.  He is battling Denver.  Shelley is a nickel all the way.  

[WindyCity]

If Tolliver can start in 2020 that would be huge.

Had some nice moments last season, had a couple of bad ones, need him to take a step.

[dll2000]

If Pace found a quality starting corner in UDFA that would be major in cap era.

He didn't look lost when he started or overwhelmed. 

Fact that he was first off bench for Fangio speaks volumes.  Fangio didnt like Fuller until his 4th year. 

[soulman]

Tolliver has all of the tools to take Amakumura's place in 2020.  IMHO he just needs more game experience so my guess is we'll see a lot of him in preseason possibly playing inside as a Slot CB as well.

If McManis is being moved to Safety it would be because Pace and Nagy want Shelley and Tolliver to get as many reps both inside and outside as possible so they can develop as #2 guys and be ready to start in 2020 if needed.

[Superman(DH23)]

I've said it before, if Tolliver goes back to LSU and plays like he has he is a top 5 pick this year.  It was a major coup tonget a kid that talented as a UDFA.  If he continues to progress this year, he will be Prince's replacement in 2020

[HuskieBear]

2 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Tolliver isn’t battling Shelley.  He is battling Denver.  Shelley is a nickel all the way.  

He's not battling DENMARK either. It's most likely Joseph

[Sugashane]

2 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

I've said it before, if Tolliver goes back to LSU and plays like he has he is a top 5 pick this year.  It was a major coup tonget a kid that talented as a UDFA.  If he continues to progress this year, he will be Prince's replacement in 2020

I don't see it. He had moments but he didn't look like an early round pick, he was only a spot starter for most of his time at LSU, and didn't make many impact plays. 

 

He should have been drafted due to measurables and such, but a midround grade is the best he could hope for after a strong year IMO. He had a massively disappointing college career. The idea of him being picked over Williams, Ferrell or White is insane to me. He wouldn't even have been picked over Greedy, let alone sniff the top 5. 

[Superman(DH23)]

1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

I don't see it. He had moments but he didn't look like an early round pick, he was only a spot starter for most of his time at LSU, and didn't make many impact plays. 

 

He should have been drafted due to measurables and such, but a midround grade is the best he could hope for after a strong year IMO. He had a massively disappointing college career. The idea of him being picked over Williams, Ferrell or White is insane to me. He wouldn't even have been picked over Greedy, let alone sniff the top 5. 

Tolliver was better than Greedy at LSU, which is why he kept him on the bench.  He was a spot starter as a sophomore, which at LSU, where they have a top CB prospect every year is quite a feat.

[Sugashane]

20 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Tolliver was better than Greedy at LSU, which is why he kept him on the bench.  He was a spot starter as a sophomore, which at LSU, where they have a top CB prospect every year is quite a feat.

What? That is blatantly false. Literally all of it.

In 2017 he completely was outdone by Greedy. Hell Greedy's 2018 year was a step back and still better than Toliver's best season. Greedy was redshirted (due to T. White and D Jackson, not because of Toliver). then the next year Toliver was suspended and Williams kept the starting gig over him after Toliver's suspension was over.

Greedy was better in college, was/is a better prospect, and no way in hell was Toliver ever going to be worth a top 5 pick. I like Toliver and he has starter potential but let's be real here. Even Toliver couldn't BS himself into believing that he'd go in the top 5.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Sugashane

[Superman(DH23)]

1 minute ago, Sugashane said:

What? That is blatantly false. Literally all of it.

In 2017 he completely was outdone by Greedy. Hell Greedy's 2018 year was a step back and still better than Toliver's best season. Greedy was redshirted (due to T. White and D Jackson, not because of Toliver). then the next year Toliver was suspended and Williams kept the starting gig over him after Toliver's suspension was over.

Greedy was better in college, was/is a better prospect, and no way in hell was Toliver ever going to be worth a top 5 pick. I like Toliver and he has starter potential but let's be real here. Even Toliver couldn't BS himself into believing that he'd go in the top 5.

I can find you articles that say otherwise.  Tolliver's issues never had anything to do with football.  You know it and I know it.

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, Superman(DH23) said:

I can find you articles that say otherwise.  Tolliver's issues never had anything to do with football.  You know it and I know it.

Not being a top 5 pick isn't an issue, not being as good as Williams isn't an issue. Not having great ball skills or truly elite athleticism isn't an issue. They are just simple truths.

Greedy was better, took the spot from him and didn't relinquish it, and Williams has been more durable in college. That is football related.

Articles proclaim all sorts of things, Hackenburg was a future top pick in some. They prove nothing. Same with media claims. Remember when Stephen A Smith claimed Haskins was "more of a runner than a thrower?" Aaron Curry was one of the "safest" picks in years too.  Most articles are for little more than resources to drive clicks and get advertisement hits. Any that say Toliver was potentially a top 5 pick would have been nothing but that.

Toliver was a decent prospect for the pro game, but couldn't be trusted to take a starting role and hold it down. Because of injuries he was raw compared to where he should have been, but he wasn't even a 1st round prospect in any circumstance. A 4th I could see, but 1st is way off base, and top 5 is pure nonsense. Sorry man, I like the bulk of your posts but that claim was ridiculous.

[Superman(DH23)]

34 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

Not being a top 5 pick isn't an issue, not being as good as Williams isn't an issue. Not having great ball skills or truly elite athleticism isn't an issue. They are just simple truths.

Greedy was better, took the spot from him and didn't relinquish it, and Williams has been more durable in college. That is football related.

Articles proclaim all sorts of things, Hackenburg was a future top pick in some. They prove nothing. Same with media claims. Remember when Stephen A Smith claimed Haskins was "more of a runner than a thrower?" Aaron Curry was one of the "safest" picks in years too.  Most articles are for little more than resources to drive clicks and get advertisement hits. Any that say Toliver was potentially a top 5 pick would have been nothing but that.

Toliver was a decent prospect for the pro game, but couldn't be trusted to take a starting role and hold it down. Because of injuries he was raw compared to where he should have been, but he wasn't even a 1st round prospect in any circumstance. A 4th I could see, but 1st is way off base, and top 5 is pure nonsense. Sorry man, I like the bulk of your posts but that claim was ridiculous.

You're saying its ridiculous but I can find several expert opinions that say otherwise.  That's the issue here.  Obviously we'll never know one way or another, but to say the claim is "ridiculous" is basically saying an opinion you dont agree with cant possibly be correct.  

[Sugashane]

2 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

You're saying its ridiculous but I can find several expert opinions that say otherwise.  That's the issue here.  Obviously we'll never know one way or another, but to say the claim is "ridiculous" is basically saying an opinion you dont agree with cant possibly be correct.  

 

Find all of them you want, it is still an outlandish claim regardless of who says it IMO. 1 or 50 "experts" would look foolish at a Bayless level to most people. You can find many who put him as a guy who didn't even crack the top 15 CBs in the draft class. 

You were pretty definitive too. You said he "would" be a top 5 pick. Not "could" or anything like it, so you were also speaking in an absolute. That in itself says an opposing opinion to yours can't possibly be correct. 

The NFL isn't exactly a moral league. Hunt, Hill, Callaway, Mathieu and a host of others were in legal woes and were still drafted, and drafted highly. Jaylon Smith had teams wanting to take him the 2md with the chance he never recovered his athleticism. If Toliver was looked at as a top pick by any team they would have at least burned a 7th on potential. In realiry he likely wouldnt have even fallen nearly that far though.

If teams will turn a blind eye to child and women beaters, does anyone think he is going to be ruined for breaking team rules? His play is why he wouldn't be a top 5 pick. 

[Superman(DH23)]

1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

 

Find all of them you want, it is still an outlandish claim regardless of who says it IMO. 1 or 50 "experts" would look foolish at a Bayless level to most people. You can find many who put him as a guy who didn't even crack the top 15 CBs in the draft class. 

You were pretty definitive too. You said he "would" be a top 5 pick. Not "could" or anything like it, so you were also speaking in an absolute. That in itself says an opposing opinion to yours can't possibly be correct. 

The NFL isn't exactly a moral league. Hunt, Hill, Callaway, Mathieu and a host of others were in legal woes and were still drafted, and drafted highly. Jaylon Smith had teams wanting to take him the 2md with the chance he never recovered his athleticism. If Toliver was looked at as a top pick by any team they would have at least burned a 7th on potential. In realiry he likely wouldnt have even fallen nearly that far though.

If teams will turn a blind eye to child and women beaters, does anyone think he is going to be ruined for breaking team rules? His play is why he wouldn't be a top 5 pick. 

There is a difference between stating your opinion and saying someone else's is ridiculous.  Feel free to disagree with my opinion and discuss.  I love it when people disagree with me.