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Raiders sign OG Richie Incognito

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2 hours ago, Silver&Black88 said:

@NightTrainLane I see it very similarly. I just don’t think the risk outweighs the reward.

Do I think the young guys will suddenly become corrupted from being around these clowns? No. Do I think this will absolutely blow up in our faces? Not necessarily. Do I think the potential reward of a Starting OG and MLB is worth sending mixed signals and effectively compromising your leadership’s integrity in an almost completely new locker room? Nope. I know I’m being a negative Nancy but I think we had a chance to get away from the two faced perception that Gruden cultivated in our own locker room last year. Sending mixed signals like this for the poster boy of idiots who at most is going to be serviceable and has no future at this age just isn’t worth it to me. 

@raidr4life I think this covers my reply to you as well 

Honestly Burfict doesn't seem that bad from everything I've seen. 

I think a lot of this leadership/lockerroom stuff is media driven. Truly some of these guys have a vendetta against gruden.

AB doesn't show for OTAS on day 1... "here we go again"

Gruden or whoever praises his leadership..."crickets"

If Burfict and Incognito play up to their capabilities (obviously you can't discount age-related decline, but bear with me), we will win more games this season for sure. Whether it's worth it at their age is another question and where I may agree with you. 

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Posted (edited)

On the field Incognito makes us a better football team and there is no questioning that.  If he is in tremendous shape, which he reportedly is, he is a massive upgrade over Good. 

Incognito is a Pro Bowl guard who plays with a nasty streak.  He has been one of the top guards in the NFL over the past 7 seasons and if he can improve overall line play, keep Carr upright, open lanes for Jacobs and help us win games I'm all for it.

Does he have a checkered past sure and no doubt he will be on a short leash but if he can play like he has over the last few seasons he will provide great value for a reasonable price.  

Yes, Incognito has had mental health issues but if he can keep it in check we got ourselves a heck of a guard who is known to play "like a Raider".  

Here is a video of him talking about run blocking.  The dude is a mauler.  

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap3000000820379/Run-blocking-101-with-Richie-Incognito

Edited by Frankie2Gunz

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4 hours ago, Silver&Black88 said:

@NightTrainLane I see it very similarly. I just don’t think the risk outweighs the reward.

Do I think the young guys will suddenly become corrupted from being around these clowns? No. Do I think this will absolutely blow up in our faces? Not necessarily. Do I think the potential reward of a Starting OG and MLB is worth sending mixed signals and effectively compromising your leadership’s integrity in an almost completely new locker room? Nope. I know I’m being a negative Nancy but I think we had a chance to get away from the two faced perception that Gruden cultivated in our own locker room last year. Sending mixed signals like this for the poster boy of idiots who at most is going to be serviceable and has no future at this age just isn’t worth it to me. 

@raidr4life I think this covers my reply to you as well 

I'm going to preface this with I know Gruden is not Belicheck and the Raiders are not the Patriots.  

With that said, these are the type of moves that BB has made time and time again. When they work he is a genius. When they don't, oh well.

Gruden doesn't deserve the same benefit of the doubt at this point, but the moves should still be judged the same way. After the fact.

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2 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Honestly Burfict doesn't seem that bad from everything I've seen. 

I think a lot of this leadership/lockerroom stuff is media driven. Truly some of these guys have a vendetta against gruden.

AB doesn't show for OTAS on day 1... "here we go again"

Gruden or whoever praises his leadership..."crickets"

If Burfict and Incognito play up to their capabilities (obviously you can't discount age-related decline, but bear with me), we will win more games this season for sure. Whether it's worth it at their age is another question and where I may agree with you. 

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just explaining my POV. I'm fine to agree to disagree. I just personally don't feel like what we'll get from them is worth appearing to go back on your word if you're Gruden/Mayock.  After last season especially. If they ball out and stay clean, great. Guess we need to wait and see.

1 hour ago, true2form said:

I'm going to preface this with I know Gruden is not Belicheck and the Raiders are not the Patriots.  

With that said, these are the type of moves that BB has made time and time again. When they work he is a genius. When they don't, oh well.

Gruden doesn't deserve the same benefit of the doubt at this point, but the moves should still be judged the same way. After the fact.

Like I said, wait and see. But I feel like Belly has paid his dues and deserves the benefit of the doubt at this point

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Posted (edited)
On 28-5-2019 at 6:13 PM, Silver&Black88 said:

You need a coherent, consistent vision/direction from leadership 

Well isnt "i want my young high draft pick long term guys to be leaders, hard workers, who love football and are system fits, while the short term fixes can have issues as long as they play and we are not commited" a consistent vision?

You can add "mid/latter round picks we like to take a chance and fa's can have an issue as well as long as they have proven to play".

If (which is a big if) VB and Incognito can still play they bring a toughness to the team that is good. And if they go to far in their issues they will be cut the same day.

Edited by Roninho

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To me the 3 players are totally different cases.

1, AB was never a locker room problem until BB throw him under the bus. AB was one of the best WR's in football for quite a few years now and he was a solid, good teammate till the crack with the QB. He played his cards to get away from the QB, who throw him under the bus, the HC and the team that basically choose the QB in this "fight". He was always a hard worker and a high effort player. He gets to a new team, to a team he agreed to, he gets his money, he gets a QB who he likes and also a HC who he respects and wants to play for. Since that all we know is that he is working all the time, he is there in the OTAs (missed the first, but there since) and works hard. The beatwriters writing about his work ethic, his positive effect on his fellow WRs and on the DBs. I see no issues right now at all. The first "date" when I can imagine any issues would be around mid season if we are loosing and if Carr plays Captain Checkdown again, so Brown wouldn't have targets to preove himself to everyone.

2, Vontaze Burfict is regarded (and probably is) a dirty player (I never really followed the Bengals). He can be reckless and he can cost his team games with penalties and with suspensions, but he is not a locker room cancer and he has no criem/legal issues. He was a leader on that D, he set a tone similarly to a guy like Romanowski back in the days for us...He might get suspended, he might get injured, he might collect some penalties for us, but I doubt he will be a locker room issue for us. He is on a one year deal, I can't see too much of a risk here.

3, Richie Incognito is the 3rd guy and he is the only guy who has had problems with the law, who has really been a locker room issue during his carrier. He is trully a risk, but with him being on a veteran minimum 1 year deal, the risk is pretty low IMO. That Miami scandal was not only about him, but also about John Jerry and Mike Pouncey and also J.Martin had some health issues on his own and the hole situation was under a not too strong Joe Philbin. I don't want to defend him or anything here, just wanted to highlight that while he might be a total jerk, there has to be multiple things "in order" for a scandal like that to happen. Here he has a pretty strong HC in place and some respected leaders and good guys on that OL (Hudson, Gabe). I think if he can stay healthy he has a chance to play and to start for us some games (depending on suspension). The moment he starts to be a problem in the locker room Gruden and Mayock can kisk him out easily. Especially when he gets some suspension from the league, so you won't cut a 16 week starter, just a 12 or even less week starter...I mean Good will have to start then some games anyway, so you can simply keep him in and let the headcase walk...I really don't see that much of a risk here. With that said I don't really like the signing, since he is not that character they were talking about during and after the draft. I get the difference between a drafted guy and a stop gap, but still I would have let him be retired. 

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7 hours ago, Silver&Black88 said:

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just explaining my POV. I'm fine to agree to disagree. I just personally don't feel like what we'll get from them is worth appearing to go back on your word if you're Gruden/Mayock.  After last season especially. If they ball out and stay clean, great. Guess we need to wait and see.

Like I said, wait and see. But I feel like Belly has paid his dues and deserves the benefit of the doubt at this point

Well that was my entire point.

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2 hours ago, Rolni said:

while he might be a total jerk

Might be? Are you serious? He's a hell of alot more than a jerk.

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4 hours ago, Rolni said:

To me the 3 players are totally different cases.

1, AB was never a locker room problem until BB throw him under the bus. AB was one of the best WR's in football for quite a few years now and he was a solid, good teammate till the crack with the QB. He played his cards to get away from the QB, who throw him under the bus, the HC and the team that basically choose the QB in this "fight". He was always a hard worker and a high effort player. He gets to a new team, to a team he agreed to, he gets his money, he gets a QB who he likes and also a HC who he respects and wants to play for. Since that all we know is that he is working all the time, he is there in the OTAs (missed the first, but there since) and works hard. The beatwriters writing about his work ethic, his positive effect on his fellow WRs and on the DBs. I see no issues right now at all. The first "date" when I can imagine any issues would be around mid season if we are loosing and if Carr plays Captain Checkdown again, so Brown wouldn't have targets to preove himself to everyone.

2, Vontaze Burfict is regarded (and probably is) a dirty player (I never really followed the Bengals). He can be reckless and he can cost his team games with penalties and with suspensions, but he is not a locker room cancer and he has no criem/legal issues. He was a leader on that D, he set a tone similarly to a guy like Romanowski back in the days for us...He might get suspended, he might get injured, he might collect some penalties for us, but I doubt he will be a locker room issue for us. He is on a one year deal, I can't see too much of a risk here.

3, Richie Incognito is the 3rd guy and he is the only guy who has had problems with the law, who has really been a locker room issue during his carrier. He is trully a risk, but with him being on a veteran minimum 1 year deal, the risk is pretty low IMO. That Miami scandal was not only about him, but also about John Jerry and Mike Pouncey and also J.Martin had some health issues on his own and the hole situation was under a not too strong Joe Philbin. I don't want to defend him or anything here, just wanted to highlight that while he might be a total jerk, there has to be multiple things "in order" for a scandal like that to happen. Here he has a pretty strong HC in place and some respected leaders and good guys on that OL (Hudson, Gabe). I think if he can stay healthy he has a chance to play and to start for us some games (depending on suspension). The moment he starts to be a problem in the locker room Gruden and Mayock can kisk him out easily. Especially when he gets some suspension from the league, so you won't cut a 16 week starter, just a 12 or even less week starter...I mean Good will have to start then some games anyway, so you can simply keep him in and let the headcase walk...I really don't see that much of a risk here. With that said I don't really like the signing, since he is not that character they were talking about during and after the draft. I get the difference between a drafted guy and a stop gap, but still I would have let him be retired. 

 I don’t know if you ever actually saw AB play but he excels at taking short passes for big gains.

485 yards out of his 1297 were YAC, that’s around 40%

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7 hours ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

 I don’t know if you ever actually saw AB play but he excels at taking short passes for big gains.

485 yards out of his 1297 were YAC, that’s around 40%

giphy.gif

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I like the move, low risk/high reward type situation. If he has his head on straight we'll have one of the best interior OL in football which should really benefit our run game, plus he should help Kolton out a lot on the left side. If he's not what he once was or his character becomes an issue then we can cut him with no real repercussions and Good can start at LG as originally planned. 

Miller - Incognito - Hudson - Jackson - Brown 

That has the potential to be a very good unit for us. 

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19 hours ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

 I don’t know if you ever actually saw AB play but he excels at taking short passes for big gains.

485 yards out of his 1297 were YAC, that’s around 40%

Captain Checkdown to me is RB screen most of the time...I get what you say tho

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Two things people forgot to mention 

1) cheap shots on Carr- There aren’t going to be any cheap shots on Carr with Richie around... nice to have a goon protect your QB

2) influence on Kolton- everyone knows Kolton has all the tools but a mean streak is ideal for the trenches. Kolton needs one, he doesn’t want to be labeled around the league as a “big soft white boy”. I’m not saying get penalties but play nasty within the rules 

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26 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

Two things people forgot to mention 

1) cheap shots on Carr- There aren’t going to be any cheap shots on Carr with Richie around... nice to have a goon protect your QB

2) influence on Kolton- everyone knows Kolton has all the tools but a mean streak is ideal for the trenches. Kolton needs one, he doesn’t want to be labeled around the league as a “big soft white boy”. I’m not saying get penalties but play nasty within the rules 

So give the refs more reason to screw us with penalties? Richie is the last guy I want influencing a young player. If he makes the team, his job should be to block that's it. Pro Bowlers Hudson and Brown can Influence Miller better

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Humble_Beast said:

Two things people forgot to mention 

1) cheap shots on Carr- There aren’t going to be any cheap shots on Carr with Richie around... nice to have a goon protect your QB

2) influence on Kolton- everyone knows Kolton has all the tools but a mean streak is ideal for the trenches. Kolton needs one, he doesn’t want to be labeled around the league as a “big soft white boy”. I’m not saying get penalties but play nasty within the rules 

K.O had the same mentality, not getting your point.

Edited by raidr4life

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