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Broncos nearing deal w/ CB Chris Harris Jr. (One-year deal)

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I really don't understand this at all. He's already under contract. Why would you bump his salary up to above $10+ million only to have him walk next year? I love CHJ and he's an all time great Bronco, but this just seems silly. He should be mad at this agent and himself for agreeing to his initial, long term deal. 

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2 hours ago, MakeDenverGreatAgain said:

I really don't understand this at all. He's already under contract. Why would you bump his salary up to above $10+ million only to have him walk next year? I love CHJ and he's an all time great Bronco, but this just seems silly. He should be mad at this agent and himself for agreeing to his initial, long term deal. 

treat your players with respect

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32 minutes ago, champ11 said:

treat your players with respect

Define respect if you would. 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

Define respect if you would. 

if they don't want to give him an extension he has every right to demand a trade to a club that will give him an extension and pay him what he is worth. if the Broncos are refusing to give him long term security, upping his pay to something closer to his market value for the season is a reasonable compromise. 

it's always a bad idea to give a team a discount in football and Chris and his team should have avoided that...but things change the Broncos haven't held up their end of the bargain when they got these players to sign team friendly extensions. Chris has outperformed every contract he's been on in Denver and has a right to put himself in the best position to get a strong deal next offseason / get paid what he is worth. the Broncos should be open to helping Chris accomplish that.

Edited by champ11

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Posted (edited)

TBH this would be a really surprising move by Elway, in that the CBA basically makes a trade request toothless - because a player under contract who doesn't report in early August for training camp, then loses the entire year of service time - so the 2019 contract year would automatically toll to 2020.   And that applies even to players who report later - yet another example of how the CBA is ridiculously team-friendly.   A trade request and holdout threat literally loses all of its' teeth with players under contract by early August - for franchise tagged players, it's definitely got teeth, but that doesn't apply to CHJ here.

Now, if Elway is doing this to show that performance and past loyalty does get rewarded, especially if it's either incentive-laden pay raise for 2019 alone, or there's another non-guaranteed year attached to it at a rate DEN is OK with (likely nowhere near 15M/year), I can see it.   I'd be surprised if it's just a guaranteed raise, and no future years tied up.   That would be an uncharacteristic 2019-only concession with no future gain, when DEN has all the leverage.

If it really is only for 2019, it's hard to believe it's just a straight raise, given how the CBA works.  Now, if it's 8.8M plus incentives that Harris' excellent usual level of play would receive, then I can see it.   NE did it with Rob Gronkowski each time the last 2 years - ironically, last year's injuries resulted in Gronk missing out on all of them.  But his excellent 2017 play had him hit all those incentives (3-4M IIRC).  I could see something like that for sure, nothing really gets lost on either side.   What this does signal, however, if it's only for 2019 - both Elway and Harris are pretty much agreeing to let him walk in 2020, as any significant raise in 2019 to the 11-12M range makes a 2020 franchise or transition tag pretty much untenable, since it requires a minimum 20 percent raise (and the tag for CB's is now going to hit 15-16M regardless, more a case with the transition tag).  

Edited by Broncofan

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Or, they really want to get CHJ into camp, happy. Make sure he understands the defense, is fully recovered and meshes well. 

A couple of possible reasons for that. One would be that the changes to our offense and OL are looking great. A team that can actually score points, occasional deep strike and a voracious ground game. Our D still has holes but if an opponent has to throw it should be an evil defense. CHJ would help there. If it doesn't pan out and we sputter along he's still good trade material.

Just seems like Elway wants all options open. If at the seasons trade deadline we're looking like contenders ( unlikely but possible) keep him. If not trade him to a contender. There would definitely be a market.

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CHJ is arguably the Broncos' 2nd/3rd best player. And, without CHJ, the Broncos' best CB would be a guy who might be playing safety. Not to mention that he has been one of the most consistent players in the league for a longtime...not sure you don't make him the highest paid DBs on the team. The defensive backfield now seems formidable. 

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11 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said:

CHJ is arguably the Broncos' 2nd/3rd best player. And, without CHJ, the Broncos' best CB would be a guy who might be playing safety. Not to mention that he has been one of the most consistent players in the league for a longtime...not sure you don't make him the highest paid DBs on the team. The defensive backfield now seems formidable. 

Curious as to what the cap looks like after this year. They left talks open ended as if they are still going to try a long term deal next year--I know Sanders 12m is coming off the books and they probably wont replace him as long as Sutton/Hamilton progress. Maybe they really do plan on going hard after an extension? 

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Yeah kinda sucks that they don’t want to extend him but will pay Jackson in his 30s

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8 hours ago, champ11 said:

if they don't want to give him an extension he has every right to demand a trade to a club that will give him an extension and pay him what he is worth. if the Broncos are refusing to give him long term security, upping his pay to something closer to his market value for the season is a reasonable compromise. 

it's always a bad idea to give a team a discount in football and Chris and his team should have avoided that...but things change the Broncos haven't held up their end of the bargain when they got these players to sign team friendly extensions. Chris has outperformed every contract he's been on in Denver and has a right to put himself in the best position to get a strong deal next offseason / get paid what he is worth. the Broncos should be open to helping Chris accomplish that.

Just a couple of things. If "long term security" is still an issue CHJ has a real problem. So far the Bronco's have paid him close to $40 million.

I disagree with the second bolded. As a player looking for an extension you can stay on the team you want or chase the largest contract. You can't do both. Thats a constant in almost every line of work. Wolfe and Jackson are great examples. Wolfe wanted to stay in Denver so took a discount. He's made $40 million, got to stay where he wanted and has become a Denver fixture. I imagine he'll retire here.  Jackson has made $8 million more and is on his 3rd team. 

Anyway, by his actions I'd guess CHJ is tired of Denver and wants to chase the bucks. Fine by me.

 

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2 hours ago, AKRNA said:

Just a couple of things. If "long term security" is still an issue CHJ has a real problem. So far the Bronco's have paid him close to $40 million.

I disagree with the second bolded. As a player looking for an extension you can stay on the team you want or chase the largest contract. You can't do both. Thats a constant in almost every line of work. Wolfe and Jackson are great examples. Wolfe wanted to stay in Denver so took a discount. He's made $40 million, got to stay where he wanted and has become a Denver fixture. I imagine he'll retire here.  Jackson has made $8 million more and is on his 3rd team. 

Anyway, by his actions I'd guess CHJ is tired of Denver and wants to chase the bucks. Fine by me.

 

I know you mean well with your sentiment, but 99% of players want to make as much money as they possibly can, whilst they can, and I am fully behind them in that regard. Teams will cut players the second they can do when their performance begins to drop, regardless of whether that is down to injuries sustained whilst trying to help the team.

Now you could argue that sometimes, it makes sense to stay put in a scheme you're familiar with because then your production increases, enabling you to get a bigger 3rd contract that you might not have done on the open market. I don't think that is the case with CHJ. He's been a top end player in multiple schemes in Denver and he would've (and should've) been paid amongst the best had he hit the open market like all players (in my opinion) should.

Personally, I think Harris and Wolfe were silly for taking team friendly deals right before hitting the open market. Wolfe has been besotted by injuries since signing his contract. I would be absolutely shocked if he gets anything other than 1/2 year deals for the rest of his career. His 4 year, $37m contract would've been substantially better on the open market; just look at the deal Malik Jackson got. He earned $45m in 3 season and despite being cut, he has another $17m guaranteed from the Eagles.

Byron Maxwell, a far inferior player to CHJ, signed a 6 year $60m contract the summer that Harris should've hit UFA. Harris will have earned $49m in that time frame. I am sorry, but losing $11m (more if he signed somewhere without state tax) is a hard pill to swallow and it's why Harris has probably played hardball this summer.

Normal folk (like myself) see these numbers and think, "you're still a multi-millionaire so who cares?" Well why not setup 3 generations of your family instead of 2? Why not be able to provide for your nieces and nephews instead of just your auntie and uncle? The money is better served in their pockets than NFL owners; that is something I am absolutely adamant of.

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11 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

Curious as to what the cap looks like after this year. They left talks open ended as if they are still going to try a long term deal next year--I know Sanders 12m is coming off the books and they probably wont replace him as long as Sutton/Hamilton progress. Maybe they really do plan on going hard after an extension? 

I don't know.  i mean, if CHJ is looking for a third contract where he is paid more than Norman in Washington, then I don't think that will be in Denver.  However, I think that is all dependent on how well he plays this season.  If he starts to show his age, there is no way he gets $12MM next year.  He'd be better off signing with a contender next year where he might get one more Super Bowl, or he might need to face reality that he is an aging CB who could be on a Broncos' team that seems to be on an upswing and just take a contract to help the younger fellas out and retire a Broncos, with the hopes that his leaderships leads the Broncos to another Super Bowl.  I prefer the latter scenario. 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, AKRNA said:

Just a couple of things. If "long term security" is still an issue CHJ has a real problem. So far the Bronco's have paid him close to $40 million.

I disagree with the second bolded. As a player looking for an extension you can stay on the team you want or chase the largest contract. You can't do both. Thats a constant in almost every line of work. Wolfe and Jackson are great examples. Wolfe wanted to stay in Denver so took a discount. He's made $40 million, got to stay where he wanted and has become a Denver fixture. I imagine he'll retire here.  Jackson has made $8 million more and is on his 3rd team. 

Anyway, by his actions I'd guess CHJ is tired of Denver and wants to chase the bucks. Fine by me.

 

Do you think being underpaid relative to your market worth and having no control over where you work - while your employer can ship you anywhere at any time, or cut you, or demand you to change your contract - is a constant in almost every line of work? How did you feel when the Broncos asked Peyton to restructure his deal in take less? I'm guessing you didn't think that the Broncos had an obligation to stay loyal to that agreement. 

I understand your line of thinking - it's tribalism related to being loyal to the franchise and I totally get it - but players have every right to use their agency to attempt and be paid as much as they are worth. Just because they are paid much more than the average American does not mean they should accept lesser pay than what they are worth or a paycut. Don't forget......it's the owner of the team that is making the most money off of these guys, and they get to do it for much longer. It's easy to get caught up in the amounts the players make......but that's nothing close to what the owners make. Using your leverage to "chase the bucks" make you any less of a professional. The organization works in its best interest at all times - why can't the players? 

Edited by champ11

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2 hours ago, champ11 said:

Do you think being underpaid relative to your market worth and having no control over where you work - while your employer can ship you anywhere at any time, or cut you, or demand you to change your contract - is a constant in almost every line of work? How did you feel when the Broncos asked Peyton to restructure his deal in take less? I'm guessing you didn't think that the Broncos had an obligation to stay loyal to that agreement. 

I understand your line of thinking - it's tribalism related to being loyal to the franchise and I totally get it - but players have every right to use their agency to attempt and be paid as much as they are worth. Just because they are paid much more than the average American does not mean they should accept lesser pay than what they are worth or a paycut. Don't forget......it's the owner of the team that is making the most money off of these guys, and they get to do it for much longer. It's easy to get caught up in the amounts the players make......but that's nothing close to what the owners make. Using your leverage to "chase the bucks" make you any less of a professional. The organization works in its best interest at all times - why can't the players? 

Absolutely, the players should take care of their best interests. No disagreement from me at all.

So should the team. The better they are at securing and developing talent, managing contracts, etc. the better chance I have as a fan of watching my team win a SB. 

I guess I didn't make my initial point very well. If a player wants to chase the bucks good for him. If he wants to take a smaller contract to play where he wants, thats fine too. I don't really care.

Now, as to your 1st paragraph. Thats not really a fair representation is it? Do you really believe that? You're making these guys sound like indentured servants.

Another way to look at it. These kids chose this as their profession, knowing the rules, and they're compensated quite well for it.A rookie UDFA on the PS makes about $500,000. The lowest paid player that stays in the NFL for 4 years will make around $2.5 mil. Not enough to retire on, but more than most people make in a lifetime and a great jump start to a career. A guy like Dekoda Watson seems to always stick somewhere and has made around $10 mil as a career backup and ST ace. Good for him!

Basically, your 1st 4 years are like an apprenticeship and you're stuck with who signed or drafted you. After that you're free to do what you want and sign with who you want. 

Getting cut, getting fired, same thing. Getting laid off, having contracts negotiated down, happens regularly in many lines of work. 

Nobody made CHJ sign his original extension. Nobody can make him sign his next deal. He can stay a Bronco or chase the bucks, makes no difference to me.

 

 

 

 

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