Broncos nearing deal w/ CB Chris Harris Jr. (One-year deal)

[lomaxgrUK]

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree, @BroncoSojia. @germ-x has covered off literally everything I wanted to say, mainly the fact we really don't have money tied up in veterans beyond this season. I also agree with Shelby Harris being our best young player with an expiring contract.

3 hours ago, AKRNA said:

You forgot Von. I really can't see Denver paying him $73 million for the next 3 years.

I think this will depend on how many good young players we acquire/have acquired. Right now, as me and @germ-x have eluded to, the Broncos don't really have much of any young talent in need of a big extension (sans Harris), so if we've got nowhere else to spend the money then Von will be kept at his full salary.

 

Edited June 5, 2019 by lomaxgrUK

[champ11]

I'll echo what @lomaxgrUK and @germ-x said. Mainly just want to say that I have to give Elway some credit for this offseason. I think he's played more towards the future than I expected and I actually am much higher on this team than I have been previously. I expected him to take Bush at 10 bc I assumed he was working under a "who is going to help us next year philosophy" and he didn't. 

I think Fangio was a monumental hire for the franchise honestly. We'll see, of course, since it's all hype this time of year. But we were at F level coaching so if this staff is B level....we're doing great.

Ownership is still a huge concern for me, but I'm happy with the coaching hires and the roster going into the year. 

 

[BroncoSojia]

I forgot about Shelby Harris myself. So that's CHJ, Shelby Harris, Simmons, Parks, McGovern, and Gotsis that are all going to be FAs this year. I would've liked to have seen at least half of these players locked up on deals.

Edited June 5, 2019 by BroncoSojia

[BroncoSojia]

Although I've repeatedly killed Elway for his myopic decisions, terrible hires, and half a decade worth of bad draft classes, I do see some positives. The past two draft class are looking pretty good and I like the coaching hires he's made this year. So I'm not a total pessimist, lol. I still think he bungled the CHJ situation and we're going to regret not signing some of these young players to deals before they hit FA, but agree to disagree.

I think this is the year for a shot at the playoffs, (which I doubt) after which there will have to be a rebuild.  Next year, most of the players I mentioned will likely be gone, along with Sanders and Wolfe. It's conceivable that we could have a question mark at every position on our defense, aside from EDGE and nickel corner. The offense is in much better shape, but that's predicated on Lock, Fant, and Sutton's development in the years to come.

The issue is that I feel like we're losing talent at a faster rate than we are gaining it, especially on defense.

The next two draft and FA classes are going to be critical, as well as Lock's development, for long term success. 

[AKRNA]

9 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree, @BroncoSojia. @germ-x has covered off literally everything I wanted to say, mainly the fact we really don't have money tied up in veterans beyond this season. I also agree with Shelby Harris being our best young player with an expiring contract.

I think this will depend on how many good young players we acquire/have acquired. Right now, as me and @germ-x have eluded to, the Broncos don't really have much of any young talent in need of a big extension (sans Harris), so if we've got nowhere else to spend the money then Von will be kept at his full salary.

 

I agree with ya. Most of our critical roster is signed up through 2021. I think the only extension we;ll be looking at next year is Bolles. I don't think we'll let him hit FA.

I kind of expect one or both of Gotsis/Harris to be extended this year. It'll be dependent on performance of course but they're the only two of the group you've been discussing that could be looked at as keepers. McGovern, Simmons etc. aren't going to be breaking any banks in FA.

 

 

[champ11]

4 hours ago, BroncoSojia said:

I forgot about Shelby Harris myself. So that's CHJ, Shelby Harris, Simmons, Parks, McGovern, and Gotsis that are all going to be FAs this year. I would've liked to have seen at least half of these players locked up on deals.

Counterpoint is......a major issue post Super Bowl is the Broncos have been paying players that weren't good enough to be paid. Or at least paid the amount that most players earn for their second contract. Stewart, Wolfe, Marshall, etc. If Elway could get some of these dudes you listed to sign super cheap extensions....sure....but you're assuming that the players would agree to that. 

[Broncofan]

8 hours ago, BroncoSojia said:

Although I've repeatedly killed Elway for his myopic decisions, terrible hires, and half a decade worth of bad draft classes, I do see some positives. The past two draft class are looking pretty good and I like the coaching hires he's made this year. So I'm not a total pessimist, lol. I still think he bungled the CHJ situation and we're going to regret not signing some of these young players to deals before they hit FA, but agree to disagree.

I think this is the year for a shot at the playoffs, (which I doubt) after which there will have to be a rebuild.  Next year, most of the players I mentioned will likely be gone, along with Sanders and Wolfe. It's conceivable that we could have a question mark at every position on our defense, aside from EDGE and nickel corner. The offense is in much better shape, but that's predicated on Lock, Fant, and Sutton's development in the years to come.

The issue is that I feel like we're losing talent at a faster rate than we are gaining it, especially on defense.

The next two draft and FA classes are going to be critical, as well as Lock's development, for long term success. 

 

4 hours ago, champ11 said:

Counterpoint is......a major issue post Super Bowl is the Broncos have been paying players that weren't good enough to be paid. Or at least paid the amount that most players earn for their second contract. Stewart, Wolfe, Marshall, etc. If Elway could get some of these dudes you listed to sign super cheap extensions....sure....but you're assuming that the players would agree to that. 

Ultimately, 3 things are going to determine how this franchise fares:

1.  Can Elway find the draft magic he had in early years (and not just Day 3/UDFA of his 2014-17 yrs, and by the end, even that was dry)?  2018 is very promising, and 2019 offers the positive that he didn't reach hard for Drew Lock (if he ends up not being the long-term answer, it still is a lot more palatable risk at as the 3rd team pick and mid-rd2 than the 1.10/mid-late 1st fears), and chose to try and go for production / skills with high ceilings, rather than just tools-only guys.    Nothing's guaranteed, but the change in approach is just so much better, so we should all be hopeful.

2.  Can Elway find the QBOTF?  Lock's our 2018-19 guy for that role (realistically, Elway's not likely going to turn his back on Lock after 1 season, even if Flacco falters and Lock plays, it's not enough time to cut bait on Lock's future, it's a minimum 2-year commitment).   If he's the guy, ppl will forget the problems of the past, memories are short when good times come back.  If Lock fails, though, and Flacco's 5-year decline in play is skill-limited and not the prayer that BAL's O was the issue (usually the truth lies in between, which doesn't bode well, barring us having a complete team) we’re likely stuck in perpetual mediocrity. 

3.  Can Elway avoid committing more win-now resources & hamstring the future?   There, the jury's out.  Because while our cap troubles lessen, it's also partly due to the fact the cap is going up across the board.    We'll be middle-of-pack in cap space once some of those extensions get done, and still likely have work to do on the roster.   The thing is, 2018 was very much a year in which Elway sacrificed future cap money with Von's restructure, and it resulted in Veldheer trade & Clinton McDonald / Tramaine Brock signings all within 10 days of Von's restructure.   And of course, the $ committed to Case Keenum.   And while the commitment to Wolfe/Sanders/Kareem Jackson don't have long-term commitments attached to them, the 35M tied up there (and more to Jackson next year), if we're still a 7-9/8-8 team with them, then it's part of the perpetual cycle of mediocrity that continues.   

We've been lucky in that under Elway we only saw a 2-year rebuild when his tenure began, at least until now - but part of that 2-year rebuild in not committing big win-now money in 2011 (when Elway left almost 25 percent of cap room unspent from the 2011 budget - 35M out of a 145M cap allocation), that did wonders in establishing our 2013-15 contention cycle, by also allowing Elway to find the QB solution with PFM at 18M-20M per year (at the time, nearly 15 percent of the budget, the threshold for stretching teams cap health).    In that regard, if we aren't really a 2019 contender, then the Jackson investment at his age makes a lot less sense, as does committing to more win-now guys for 2019, when that room likely makes a much bigger impact in 2020+ (hopefully) - and looks a lot worse in terms of 2018, where a ton of wasted money was spent in what players themselves acknowledged was a rebuild year, only Elway didn't accept that in the preseason.   I get @BroncoSojia's point there. It's rough for the current year, but rebuilds usually go faster if teams don't invest in win-now - provided they draft well and invest the saved $ wisely.   

Now, to be fair to Elway, the injury guarantee to Leary and the injury to Sanders with the depth of our WR corps tied our hands - I think Elway would have likely walked away from Leary if he could have, but much like Menelik Watson, he was left without any outs.   That only leaves Wolfe as the one guy who could have been cut - but the refusal to start the year thinking it's a rebuild has been Elway's mantra since 2013, so it's not that surprising that Wolfe stayed.  Harris getting the raise also means Elway's kinda committed to 2019, so while I think the odds are uber-long, you can't really go in 2 different directions in the same offseason. 

    

In the big picture, Elway's change in draft approach in 2018 which appears to have carried over in 2019 (and hopefully translates in results), is the biggest reason to be optimistic.   Provided he can continue to find success in the draft, and provided we find the QBOTF, then is Elway willing to think more future-wise with his cap spending?   That last Q seems to have a murkier answer TBH, given how 2018 & even 2019 have gone.    FTR, I love the Munchak hire the most, I think long-term that's the most important hire we could have made...because getting good OL play without having to spend top $ at each position is how most teams stay competitive, along with good-great QB play (good play at cheap prices, or great play).     Guess we'll see with how things go this season - if we struggle early, I'd hope Elway sells CHJ and anyone else who’s not in our long term plans or expensive beyond their level of play (I don’t necessarily include Von there FWIW) for a shot at the future, if CHJ is looking at 2019-and-done.    

One final thought - no matter how you feel on the side of this discussion it’s definitely fair to say @lomaxgrUK is about as far as you can get from an Elway apologist.  And I do think Elway’s still too far in win now mode in who he’s allocating $ to (Jackson) but I’d not ever call @lomaxgrUK an Elway fanboy. 

Edited June 6, 2019 by Broncofan

[germ-x]

6 hours ago, BroncoSojia said:

Although I've repeatedly killed Elway for his myopic decisions, terrible hires, and half a decade worth of bad draft classes, I do see some positives. The past two draft class are looking pretty good and I like the coaching hires he's made this year. So I'm not a total pessimist, lol. I still think he bungled the CHJ situation and we're going to regret not signing some of these young players to deals before they hit FA, but agree to disagree.

I think this is the year for a shot at the playoffs, (which I doubt) after which there will have to be a rebuild.  Next year, most of the players I mentioned will likely be gone, along with Sanders and Wolfe. It's conceivable that we could have a question mark at every position on our defense, aside from EDGE and nickel corner. The offense is in much better shape, but that's predicated on Lock, Fant, and Sutton's development in the years to come.

The issue is that I feel like we're losing talent at a faster rate than we are gaining it, especially on defense.

The next two draft and FA classes are going to be critical, as well as Lock's development, for long term success. 

I think something else that is being forgotten is Fangio’s input.  Most of the players we’re talking about are on the defensive side of the ball.  Fangio doesn’t have final say in decisions, but you’d better believe his opinion carries a ton of weight. He either may not want to re-sign these guys or he may want a chance to actually coach them and get to know them before handing out extensions. 

If I were an HC (with an incredible resume on the defensive side of the ball) I’d be absolutely pissed if my GM were giving out long term contracts to borderline players without me having a shot to see what they were all about.

[BroncoSojia]

I have to say, @Broncofan that was a great post. It touched on things I couldn’t articulate even if I wanted. I also would like to apologize to @lomaxgrUK for insinuating that he was a Elway homer. That wasn’t very fair of me.

[The Helicopter]

17 hours ago, BroncoSojia said:

I have to say, @Broncofan that was a great post. It touched on things I couldn’t articulate even if I wanted. I also would like to apologize to @lomaxgrUK for insinuating that he was a Elway homer. That wasn’t very fair of me.

Now, let's talk about an apology for that hideous image under your name

[BroncoSojia]

51 minutes ago, The Helicopter said:

Now, let's talk about an apology for that hideous image under your name

Lol I lost a bet.

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, BroncoSojia said:

Lol I lost a bet.

Was it the Oak vs. Den season long bet?  Someone had that here but I think it was shaving heads lol.  

Did you have to spot extra W?  Or was it MNF @ OAK?

[BroncoSojia]

42 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Was it the Oak vs. Den season long bet?  Someone had that here but I think it was shaving heads lol.  

Did you have to spot extra W?  Or was it MNF @ OAK?

 

[Broncofan]

33 minutes ago, BroncoSojia said:

 

Duuuude.  They only had 15 percent odds to get 1.1 right?   I hope you had at least 4-1 odds (he had to wear it for 8 months if NY got pick).  LOL it’s only 2 months.  

[BroncoSojia]

38 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Duuuude.  They only had 15 percent odds to get 1.1 right?   I hope you had at least 4-1 odds (he had to wear it for 8 months if NY got pick).  LOL it’s only 2 months.  

No odds, just straight up. It was 2 months for both of us. I foolishly thought that the Knicks were due for something to go right for them, but nope.