AkronsWitness Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 (edited) How is Ben Roethlisberger not on this list. I know I sound like a hater because Im a Browns fan, but Ive never watched either of my teams I follow play the Steelers and go "oh no we have to play Ben this week" like I do with Brady, Rodgers, Brees, ect. If anything Im more scared of Rivers than Ben. Much of his success has been because of playing with that Steelers D for 15 years, a always great O-Line and legendary players like Bettis, Ward, Brown and Bell on offense his entire career. Flame away Edited July 21, 2019 by AkronsWitness 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elky Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said: How is Ben Roethlisberger not on this list. I know I sound like a hater because Im a Browns fan, but Ive never watched either of my teams I follow play the Steelers and go "oh no we have to play Ben this week" like I do with Brady, Rodgers, Brees, ect. If anything Im more scared of Rivers than Ben. I'm a major Ben critic, but the guy is to Cleveland like Brady is to Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Just now, Elky said: I'm a major Ben critic, but the guy is to Cleveland like Brady is to Buffalo. It has nothing to do with being a Browns fan. Even as a Browns fan and how bad we have been Ive never feared Ben. I also root for the Broncos and have seen them play big playoff games against eachother and have never feared Ben when they played. I fear their defense and playmakers, not Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 36 minutes ago, Elky said: I'm a major Ben critic, but the guy is to Cleveland like Brady is to Buffalo. Well every opponent has been to Cleveland what Brady has been to Buffalo. Been real bad recently (until last season) and not good since the turn of the century. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Bassomatic said: That could apply to any Hall-of-Fame player. What if Roger Staubach didn't play in a highly-structure system of offense created by Tom Landry? What if Bill Walsh drafted Phil Simms instead of Joe Montana? What if Drew Bledsoe didn't get injured in 2001? Truth is, every player in the Hall of Fame today got there by having coaches and teammates who brought out the best in them. This isn't unique to Terry Bradshaw or Lynn Swann. Walsh and Staubach were going either way. I was speaking of the defense getting the Steelers as far as they did that put rings on the fingers of the offensive players that ensured them HOF status. Bradshaw was a top 10 QB of his era and good when it mattered and maybe a borderline HOF candidate if they went to 4 championship games and didn't win. He certainly is a lower tiered HOF QB. He is probably like a Matt Ryan of this era (top 10) as far as how they are regarded if you ignore titles. The titles put him higher and probably like a Roethlisberger of this era (top 5). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 On 6/2/2019 at 2:40 PM, AkronsWitness said: To be fair, Brady has won A LOT especially his early SBs because he was consistently being backed by the best or one of the best defenses in the NFL. Not that he didnt contribute to the success early but it makes it a lot easier to win those games when you had those early 2000s Pats defenses destroying oppenents. It makes it a lot easier to have all of those accolades when every season your playing in the worst most non-competitive divison in football for the past 20 years, consistently have a elite defense on the other side and have the GOAT head coach on your team. Hes clearly a monster and the best QB ive ever seen, Im just saying I dont think Brady would have all of the accolades if he didnt have such a clear path to success each and every season. Playing in a weak division has certainly been helpful, but he has also had to beat the best teams in the playoffs to win all those rings. When you get deep into the playoffs, there is seldom an opponent who doesn't also have a beastly defense, so you have to give him credit for beating all of those great teams, even if his path to get there may have a little easier a lot of the time. You have to be great to do what he has done, and there have been a lot of terrific players mentioned in this thread and none of them have done what he has done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said: Playing in a weak division has certainly been helpful, but he has also had to beat the best teams in the playoffs to win all those rings. When you get deep into the playoffs, there is seldom an opponent who doesn't also have a beastly defense, so you have to give him credit for beating all of those great teams, even if his path to get there may have a little easier a lot of the time. You have to be great to do what he has done, and there have been a lot of terrific players mentioned in this thread and none of them have done what he has done. You do, but there is no doubt that there has never been a QB in NFL history with a easier path to success than Tom Brady strictly based off of the horrific AFCE. He has to finish in the playoffs like you said, but he has essentially been given a free pass to the playoffs his entire career because of the ineptitude of the division opponents around him. Put the Patriots in the AFCN, AFCW, NFCS or NFCN and Brady doesnt have nearly the accolades he currently has. Swap the Packers and Patriots and Aaron Rodgers has 3-5 Super Bowls. The table is set for him and the Pats every year and all they have to do is wait for DEC/JAN in the 4 important games they will play. They have a 3-5 game season whereas 50%+ of the other good teams in the NFL have a 9-12 game season based off of their division opponents. The path of least resistance - The New England Patriots story Edited July 21, 2019 by AkronsWitness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVScout Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 On 7/21/2019 at 9:05 AM, Bassomatic said: The 1978 Cowboys ranked 2nd in yards allowed and 3rd in points allowed. How incompetent of them. They were in that Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVScout Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 On 7/21/2019 at 9:35 AM, Bassomatic said: Roger Staubach excelled within a highly-structured system of offense created by Tom Landry, who wasn't called "The Great Innovator" for nothing. Skip Bayless wrote in one of his books that Roger changed almost every play that Landry called. Almost all of Landry's innovations were on defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelersfan43 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 On 21/07/2019 at 3:40 PM, AkronsWitness said: How is Ben Roethlisberger not on this list. I know I sound like a hater because Im a Browns fan, but Ive never watched either of my teams I follow play the Steelers and go "oh no we have to play Ben this week" like I do with Brady, Rodgers, Brees, ect. If anything Im more scared of Rivers than Ben. Much of his success has been because of playing with that Steelers D for 15 years, a always great O-Line and legendary players like Bettis, Ward, Brown and Bell on offense his entire career. Flame away Ben overrated? It's not so like many think he is a top 10 QB of all-time or something like that .... In fact for several years, before every season, I often hear that Roethlisberger is old or something like that...Some think he will not be the same without Antonio Brown, even though he was very productive with so many player before AB became a superstar in 2013.Many have always had doubts about him almost every year. Also, the steelers defense has been garbage often for several years, especially in the big moment ... Keith Butler can't coach defense ..He is dumb enough to put a linebacker on the best WR of the other team (like Michael Thomas, Mike Evans, Allen Keenan, A.J Green, etc.) often in a crucial situation Always a great o-line? ... Not true again ... Between 2007 to 2011, the o-line was bad ... The steelers have even been in the super bowl in 2010 with Jonathan Scott as LT! For the weapons, he has already won a super bowl with Cedric Wilson as 2nd WR and he has been productive with so much player, even before AB becomes a star.Ben deserves some credit for that. No doubt, Ben was in a good situation, but he was often able to overcome the weaknesses of the teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 On 7/21/2019 at 3:06 PM, AkronsWitness said: You do, but there is no doubt that there has never been a QB in NFL history with a easier path to success than Tom Brady strictly based off of the horrific AFCE. He has to finish in the playoffs like you said, but he has essentially been given a free pass to the playoffs his entire career because of the ineptitude of the division opponents around him. Put the Patriots in the AFCN, AFCW, NFCS or NFCN and Brady doesnt have nearly the accolades he currently has. Swap the Packers and Patriots and Aaron Rodgers has 3-5 Super Bowls. The table is set for him and the Pats every year and all they have to do is wait for DEC/JAN in the 4 important games they will play. They have a 3-5 game season whereas 50%+ of the other good teams in the NFL have a 9-12 game season based off of their division opponents. The path of least resistance - The New England Patriots story Sorry this is sheer stupidity. The Patriots have a winning record against most teams. The two best teams the last 20 years in your conference are the Steelers and Ravens. The Patriots have an overwhelming win percentage against them. Realistically the Patriots would just go in the AFC North and give everyone else an extra two losses on average and knock them out of the playoffs or force them to wildcard. Still winning the division and still having the same out of division record. Realistically they they’d probably prevent a team like the Steelers who they beat in the AFCCG on route to 3 rings from even getting that far, making their path easier. AFC West is the only division that really concerns me and that’s only because of Denver. The Chargers have been great but they never beat a Brady led squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 On 21.7.2019 at 11:06 PM, AkronsWitness said: You do, but there is no doubt that there has never been a QB in NFL history with a easier path to success than Tom Brady strictly based off of the horrific AFCE. He has to finish in the playoffs like you said, but he has essentially been given a free pass to the playoffs his entire career because of the ineptitude of the division opponents around him. Put the Patriots in the AFCN, AFCW, NFCS or NFCN and Brady doesnt have nearly the accolades he currently has. Swap the Packers and Patriots and Aaron Rodgers has 3-5 Super Bowls. The table is set for him and the Pats every year and all they have to do is wait for DEC/JAN in the 4 important games they will play. They have a 3-5 game season whereas 50%+ of the other good teams in the NFL have a 9-12 game season based off of their division opponents. The path of least resistance - The New England Patriots story I thought this post came from CKS97. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, SBLIII said: I thought this post came from CKS97. So you dont believe that the Bills/Jets/Dolphins combined record since 2001 being 384-480 has given the Patriots a easier than normal path to success compared to many other divisions with multiple playoff caliber teams in the same time period? The Pats play in a more competitive division, I think its safe to say they wouldnt basically wrap up home field advantage every year by week 15, in turn forcing them to play on the road in more playoff games. Brady has a losing record on the road in the playoffs. Therefore, I believe if the Patriots played in a tougher division--the Pats/Brady wouldnt have the accolades he does now. Just using some logic and simple math from the numbers that we have since 2001 Edited July 26, 2019 by AkronsWitness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malak1 Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 On 7/21/2019 at 7:23 AM, Flounch said: No Tom Brady in the list ? How can the GOAT be overrated? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassomatic Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 On 21/07/2019 at 3:40 PM, AkronsWitness said: How is Ben Roethlisberger not on this list. Because he's underrated, if anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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