QB Tiers

[RandyMossIsBoss]

How has this thread not been made yet?* QB tier lists (well, just tier lists in general) are the hot thing right now. I've always ranked my QBs by tiers, but now I have nice graphics to go along with it. 

 

https://tiermaker.com/create/nfl-quarterbacks-tiers-18267 <--Here's template I will use. You can make your own tier names if you don't feel comfortable fitting guys into the default categories.

 

*if it has, then just delete thread plz

[RandyMossIsBoss]

 

Here are mine, and clarification on my tiers.

Elite- Only one way to read this tier, these are the elite QBs in the NFL right now without question. They are proven, have rings, have  MVP caliber seasons. They can carry offenses.

Very Good- You've got some guys here who may very well be elite, or on the cusp, but I'll need to see a bit more. Other guys look to be the QBs who will never quite take that next step needed to get elite consideration but are still QBs who are more than capable of leading dangerous offenses and making a run for MVP.

Franchise QB- This tier, and obviously those above, are who I feel are the bonafide franchise QBs in the NFL. Guys who you can confidently make the face of your franchise, you know they will be around, and you'll ride or die with their success. These are the guys worth building around, and you can have a ton of success with them in the right situation.

Starter Caliber- I would not exactly feel comfortable building my team around these guys at the moment. For some, that just comes down to youth or inexperience, they can easily prove over another season they are indeed Franchise QBs. For others, they just don't put out good performances consistently enough to be relied upon and "given the reigns" to the franchise. The other bunch are the vets who are what they are, solid QBs, but if they're on your roster you should be looking at QB in the draft.

Mediocre Starter- Another mix. Some of these guys should not be starting in the NFL, period. The others are young and obviously should start so we can see them develop and if they're the real deal.

 

 

 

edit- hardest decision I had to make was knocking Ben off that "very good" tier. He's been a constant for me in that tier, but I do think his play slipped off a bit and it will probably only get worse. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by RandyMossIsBoss

[TitanLegend]

Just as an FYI, the order n which the QBs are placed inside the tier means nothing. Just placed them as I saw them.

Elite and borderline elite speaks for itself.

The only two things I really have to say about the above average tier is I feel compelled to move Ryan up to borderline elite but I dunno. If there were a tier between the two I'd probably put him there. I don't think he's quite on the same level as the 3 above him, but I also feel like he's better than everyone on his tier too. Matthew Stafford is the other guy I struggle with. I want to place him in the average tier but his performances seem to demand better than that. He confuses me.

Average tier also kinda speaks for itself, don't think anyone is gonna have any issues with that.

My unknown tier might upset some, but I have a rule that I don't judge players off a single year or very limited snaps. So guys like Mahomes and Baker who look good to great, I'm not going to place them with good or great QBs just cause the consistency isn't there yet(as obviously they haven't had the time/chance). Foles is probably the only one who'd make some people scratch their heads, but he's in the unknown tier because I literally have no idea where else to place him. Sometimes he can play with the best of them, other times it looks like he belongs on the bench. I dunno.

The only question people would probably have about my below average is Alex Smith being there. And while his play over the years in KC would qualify him for the average(or if there were a tier between average and very good, maybe even that), he was so bad last year that I just don't feel comfortable placing him any higher. I'm not sure if he was entirely a product of Harbaugh and Reid, but holy hell was his time in Washington ugly. I don't feel like I can place him any higher after watching that.

[Danger]

[fortdetroit]

Here are my tiers.  Maybe my most controversial placing is Rodgers not being in the elite category.  Just watching him the past 3-4 years I think it's obvious that while still very good, he's not nearly what he used to be.  Flame away.

 

Edited May 30, 2019 by fortdetroit

[TXsteeler]

[game3525]

https://tiermaker.com/create/nfl-quarterbacks-tiers-18267

Mine is strictly based on 2018. Rodgers can easily bump up to category one, but he he wasn't last year and we haven't really seen him play at an elite level since 2016. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by game3525

[Chargers]

Best to Worst is left to right 

 

Edited June 1, 2019 by Classic

[Thomas5737]

On 5/30/2019 at 6:00 AM, TitanLegend said:

Just as an FYI, the order n which the QBs are placed inside the tier means nothing. Just placed them as I saw them.

Elite and borderline elite speaks for itself.

The only two things I really have to say about the above average tier is I feel compelled to move Ryan up to borderline elite but I dunno. If there were a tier between the two I'd probably put him there. I don't think he's quite on the same level as the 3 above him, but I also feel like he's better than everyone on his tier too. Matthew Stafford is the other guy I struggle with. I want to place him in the average tier but his performances seem to demand better than that. He confuses me.

Average tier also kinda speaks for itself, don't think anyone is gonna have any issues with that.

My unknown tier might upset some, but I have a rule that I don't judge players off a single year or very limited snaps. So guys like Mahomes and Baker who look good to great, I'm not going to place them with good or great QBs just cause the consistency isn't there yet(as obviously they haven't had the time/chance). Foles is probably the only one who'd make some people scratch their heads, but he's in the unknown tier because I literally have no idea where else to place him. Sometimes he can play with the best of them, other times it looks like he belongs on the bench. I dunno.

The only question people would probably have about my below average is Alex Smith being there. And while his play over the years in KC would qualify him for the average(or if there were a tier between average and very good, maybe even that), he was so bad last year that I just don't feel comfortable placing him any higher. I'm not sure if he was entirely a product of Harbaugh and Reid, but holy hell was his time in Washington ugly. I don't feel like I can place him any higher after watching that.

I understand not wanting to judge somebody because of lack of data but don't be Hue Jackson and do it just because you made the rule to do it and make yourself look silly. Mahomes showed enough in his epic season to be at least in the above average category.

[Thomas5737]

On 5/30/2019 at 10:11 AM, fortdetroit said:

Here are my tiers.  Maybe my most controversial placing is Rodgers not being in the elite category.  Just watching him the past 3-4 years I think it's obvious that while still very good, he's not nearly what he used to be.  Flame away.

 

While Luck hasn't earned elite status and Rodgers has your most controversial placement is Newton in the borderline elite status. Switch him and Goff and your list makes more sense.

[Jakuvious]

[TitanLegend]

1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said:

I understand not wanting to judge somebody because of lack of data but don't be Hue Jackson and do it just because you made the rule to do it and make yourself look silly. Mahomes showed enough in his epic season to be at least in the above average category.

I'm not going to break the rule just for one player, just not how I do things. If I were making this list going in to the 2014 season and followed this rule, Nick Foles would be in the borderline elite or at least above average tier and then I'd look real stupid after the season was over. If I were making this list going in to the 2016 season, Cam Newton would be in the borderline elite if not elite tier and I'd look real stupid after the season was over.

The key for me is consistency. You are what you consistently perform as. Mayfield, Mahomes, Darnold, Allen, Jackson, Rosen, Jimmy G, Trubisky, so on and so forth have consistently performed as nothing because they have all of one season(or at least around 16ish games give or take a couple) under their belt.

We have seen players go from looking top tier one year to average or even garbage the next. We've seen players look like garbage one year then top tier the next. It's all about the consistency, and of course factoring in the context around their consistency.

[Thomas5737]

6 minutes ago, TitanLegend said:

I'm not going to break the rule just for one player, just not how I do things. If I were making this list going in to the 2014 season and followed this rule, Nick Foles would be in the borderline elite or at least above average tier and then I'd look real stupid after the season was over. If I were making this list going in to the 2016 season, Cam Newton would be in the borderline elite if not elite tier and I'd look real stupid after the season was over.

The key for me is consistency. You are what you consistently perform as. Mayfield, Mahomes, Darnold, Allen, Jackson, Rosen, Jimmy G, Trubisky, so on and so forth have consistently performed as nothing because they have all of one season(or at least around 16ish games give or take a couple) under their belt.

We have seen players go from looking top tier one year to average or even garbage the next. We've seen players look like garbage one year then top tier the next. It's all about the consistency, and of course factoring in the context around their consistency.

So 5864 yards with 45 TD and 17 INT is above average but you have no idea on 5381 yards 50 TD and 13 INT? Watson started 6 games as a rookie and Mahomes 1. Watson has attempted less than 100 more passes. You either need to be unknown on Watson or place Mahomes, otherwise it makes no sense.

[TitanLegend]

8 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

So 5864 yards with 45 TD and 17 INT is above average but you have no idea on 5381 yards 50 TD and 13 INT? Watson started 6 games as a rookie and Mahomes 1. Watson has attempted less than 100 more passes. You either need to be unknown on Watson or place Mahomes, otherwise it makes no sense.

Watson over two seasons(yes, the first was cut short, but still a solid 6 or 7 game sample size) with garbage tier coaching and an offensive line that is probably the worst in the league has performed at a consistently above average level. So yes, he fits in to above average for me.

And yes, Mahomes had a ton of pass attempts and nearly matches Watson's total. What you're ignoring with that statement however is the difference in play calling/coaching and personnel. Looking at last season, Mahomes threw 121 passes at or behind the line of scrimmage(72 for Watson). Reid utilizes the pass game as an extension of the run game to a far greater extent than BoB's dumbass ever has. The only other split where there's a notable difference between the two is in the 20+ yard split.

Watson threw 254 passes in the 0-10 range. Mahomes 243.

Watson 129 in the 10-20 range. Mahomes 125.

Watson 59 in the 20+ range. Mahomes 106.

So when factoring in how the Chiefs use the pass as an extension of the run, their passing totals last year are largely similar. And as it relates to personnel, if Will Fuller, the Texans top deep threat, wasn't hurt for most of last season, Watson probably comes closer(though wouldn't match) to Mahomes in the deep attempts as well. If Watson's o-line also wasn't swiss cheese, he probably comes closer to matching Mahomes in deep targets too.

If you're trying to get me to say Mahomes had a fantastic 2018, then there you go. I'm not arguing otherwise. If I were ranking solely based off 2018 he would be in the elite tier. I don't rank solely off a single season when I make my tier lists though. And I also don't just judge QBs off their box scores. I watch them and then look at splits, more indepth stats(analytics if you want to call it that), etc to form my opinions.

[Thomas5737]

5 minutes ago, TitanLegend said:

Watson over two seasons(yes, the first was cut short, but still a solid 6 or 7 game sample size) with garbage tier coaching and an offensive line that is probably the worst in the league has performed at a consistently above average level. So yes, he fits in to above average for me.

And yes, Mahomes had a ton of pass attempts and nearly matches Watson's total. What you're ignoring with that statement however is the difference in play calling/coaching and personnel. Looking at last season, Mahomes threw 121 passes at or behind the line of scrimmage(72 for Watson). Reid utilizes the pass game as an extension of the run game to a far greater extent than BoB's dumbass ever has. The only other split where there's a notable difference between the two is in the 20+ yard split.

Watson threw 254 passes in the 0-10 range. Mahomes 243.

Watson 129 in the 10-20 range. Mahomes 125.

Watson 59 in the 20+ range. Mahomes 106.

So when factoring in how the Chiefs use the pass as an extension of the run, their passing totals last year are largely similar. And as it relates to personnel, if Will Fuller, the Texans top deep threat, wasn't hurt for most of last season, Watson probably comes closer(though wouldn't match) to Mahomes in the deep attempts as well. If Watson's o-line also wasn't swiss cheese, he probably comes closer to matching Mahomes in deep targets too.

If you're trying to get me to say Mahomes had a fantastic 2018, then there you go. I'm not arguing otherwise. If I were ranking solely based off 2018 he would be in the elite tier. I don't rank solely off a single season when I make my tier lists though. And I also don't just judge QBs off their box scores. I watch them and then look at splits, more indepth stats(analytics if you want to call it that), etc to form my opinions.

Yeah well I like Watson but Mahomes is better and as far as deep passing Mahomes is way better. You threw out stats and then dismissed stats. Then you say Mahomes was in a better situation (mostly because of Mahomes btw) so he can't be graded even though he and Watson have nearly the same passing experience. Trubisky has more starts and wins than Watson too so it isn't a length of service only that you are basing this off of so obviously you just don't believe in Mahomes for some strange reason.