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RB Considerations... Duke Johnson & More

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Just now, Mind Character said:

Lol.

It's easy to discount information that doesn't confirm your opinion especially when it comes from people you don't like or disagree with.

It takes mental capacity/strength to see truth for truth irrespective of the messenger.

So, if your job paid you well 12 months ago, but then a few months ago called you expendable, no longer valued your work, and actively tried to replace you're saying it would make you a "complainy whiner" to exercise your employee rights to formally be transferred to another division/department within the company/NFL that values your sacrifice/work and allows your family the ability to not be moved mid-season/mid-school year???

Lol... Got it...

If my job paid me what I was worth a year ago and continued to pay me what I was scheduled to pay I’d have no grounds to complain. . . 

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24 minutes ago, nugpimpen said:

I would agree with Mind if we actually had good intel that we put him on the block. It sounds like we listened to offers on the player (which probably happens about a ton of players). Short of us coming out to actually shop him and trying to move on from him, i see nothing wrong from the team. If they wanted him gone, they could have dumped him for pennies. I also don't have much problem with people calling him out. When you make it known to the world that you don't want to be a part of this team, how should that make the teammates feel towards that player?

 

If we DID proactively shop him, that would be a bit different. 

The team won't confirm that a player was on trade block... that doesn't often happen in the NFL.. the NBA does it but not the NFL...

So, you have to weigh the truthfulness of reports about a player being on the trade block. Sometimes that info comes from the player's agent/camp themselves and is untrue ...sometimes it comes from an opposing team trying to lower the price on a player and cause the player to be disgruntled and available for trade... other times it's true... sometimes it's just made up stuff or rumors by reporters that are unfounded... sometimes there is fire where there is smoke.

There were a ton of reports coming from all kinds of different areas all pointing to the fact that Duke Johnson was being actively shopped and not that teams were JUST inquiring about him. The reports were numerous, consistent, and they lasted a long time.

Duke by all accounts is thoughtful and grounded enough to not fly off the handle at internet reports believing them to be true without evidence. He waited a month or so and formally made his trade request.

I don't like it one freaking bit. I don't like that it is a distraction, and I don't like that Duke wants to leave. But it makes complete rational sense from a human level. 

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6 minutes ago, mistakey said:

If my job paid me what I was worth a year ago and continued to pay me what I was scheduled to pay I’d have no grounds to complain. . . 

So again, if you found out your job not only tried to replace you and didn't value your contributions/sacrifice, but you also know that your company will try to replace you again in a few months at a time not of your choosing causing you and your family to have to uproot and move to a state you have no idea about, mid-school year nonetheless to a company department/division you don't know well putting you in the position to have to prove your worth on the fly with no real preparation time to acclimate to the new company department's/division's system ... all that you're saying that you'd be a "whiny complainer" to get out in front of things and request that the company move you know so you and your family can get acclimated in ways that can help you thrive as a professional and human being??

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5 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

So again, if you found out your job not only tried to replace you and didn't value your contributions/sacrifice, but you also know that your company will try to replace you again in a few months at a time not of your choosing causing you and your family to have to uproot and move to a state you have no idea about, mid-school year nonetheless to a company department/division you don't know well putting you in the position to have to prove your worth on the fly with no real preparation time to acclimate to the new company department's/division's system ... all that you're saying that you'd be a "whiny complainer" to get out in front of things and request that the company move you know so you and your family can get acclimated in ways that can help you thrive as a professional and human being??

Does duke even have kids or a wife ?

and yeah.  Suck it up you got a fair market contract and you’re on a team that could challenge for a title especially with your help. . And it costs more to trade you then keep you yeah.  Stop complaining 

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19 minutes ago, mistakey said:

If my job paid me what I was worth a year ago and continued to pay me what I was scheduled to pay I’d have no grounds to complain. . . 

Especially when you signed the contract within the last year without cause for inflation, or increase in pay, which has not occurred. 

The issue with Duke is does he feel like there was a personal reason for trade ie he signed to play under hue in his offense rather than freddie in his, which is reasonable grounds to change employment. If I got a new boss who was a d bag, I'd change employment. 

The next issue is that his trade value is probably 0. 

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Player rights vs player value vs team interest, in this case, Duke doesnt have the value, if someone was offering a 2,3, or a 4 he isnt gone. But they are probably offering a 7th. 

His value may increase in season if a player goes down. 

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1 hour ago, candyman93 said:

Mind I agree with you.

 

Baker and Freddie better produce or personalities like theirs turn things really ugly in a lockeroom. I’m cool with them taking shots at people outside of the locker room. However, when you start talking about your own guys, you get the Steelers mess from the past year.

I'm hopeful that this will be a growth experience for Baker as he's young and seems amenable to conversations from the guys. Hopefully a guy like Ryan Lindley who was Duke RB coach could convey the human element perspective to Baker so he'd understand how to publicly address teammate/FO issues better going forward.

For goodness sakes please no to us going the way of the Steelers, but you're right in that an accumulation of publicly opinionated statements from guys can be tinder for locker room foolishness. With Freddie, Odell, Baker, Demarious, Sheldon RIchardson, and Jarvis we have a fair share of high profile people that have no problem making their discontent made public to the media. In a winning and thriving environment, it's all good. When adversity hits and twitter accounts and public statements start to fly it can go South. 

Here's to hoping for the best. Hopefully the leaders be they coaches or players can drive the culture of the locker room in a positive direction even when adversity hits and this situation will be a forgettable little blip on the radar instead of a sign of the coming times a la the Steelers locker room dysfunction.

There are players on this team now that love Baker but also love Duke, his professionalism and unassuming humble nature and know that the trade request was not "self-inflicted." They're watching how Baker is talking about Duke and taking notes about how he speaks about guys when there is a FO/player clash. What becomes of it will have a lot to do with the relationship work Baker does and understanding he develops with the guys along the way. 

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While I agree with Bakers overall sentiment--I feel like he could have gone about that a little differently. What was wrong with just saying 'Duke has his own things he is working on. He is a really great player who has been around here a while and while I hope for the best we still have to focus on whats ahead of us and cant worry about that"

In the end, I Duke being traded for a 6th when another RB goes down in Pre-Season seems extremely likely. They will probably look to unload with the soonest chance.

Also, everything I have heard from the beat guys is that Hilliard looks really good and already plays the same Duke Johnson role. If they can get a draft pick for Duke, he gone and let Hilliard take that role.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

Player rights vs player value vs team interest, in this case, Duke doesnt have the value, if someone was offering a 2,3, or a 4 he isnt gone. But they are probably offering a 7th. 

His value may increase in season if a player goes down. 

There's non-material value though: The value of getting rid of a player that is perceived to not be "all in." That has a lot of value for new coaches and young teams at this time of the year. I'm willing to bet by week 2 of the preseason with the likely injuries on other teams leads to us getting a 5th or 6th for Duke and the non-material value of getting rid of a disgruntled player...

Edited by Mind Character

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11 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

There's non-material value though: The value of getting rid of a player that is perceived to not be "all in." That has a lot of value for new coaches and young teams at this time of the year. I'm willing to bet by week 2 of the preseason with the likely injuries on other teams leads to us getting a 5th or 6th for Duke and the non-material value of getting rid of a disgruntled player...

I'd agree with that, especially if Baker and Duke do not have chemistry, I wouldn't want a guy who doesnt like me throwing footballs to me.

Football is a complicated from a team chemistry perspective.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

I'm hopeful that this will be a growth experience for Baker as he's young and seems amenable to conversations from the guys. Hopefully a guy like Ryan Lindley who was Duke RB coach could convey the human element perspective to Baker so he'd understand how to publicly address teammate/FO issues better going forward.

For goodness sakes please no to us going the way of the Steelers, but you're right in that an accumulation of publicly opinionated statements from guys can be tinder for locker room foolishness. With Freddie, Odell, Baker, Demarious, Sheldon RIchardson, and Jarvis we have a fair share of high profile people that have no problem making their discontent made public to the media. In a winning and thriving environment, it's all good. When adversity hits and twitter accounts and public statements start to fly it can go South. 

Here's to hoping for the best. Hopefully the leaders be they coaches or players can drive the culture of the locker room in a positive direction even when adversity hits and this situation will be a forgettable little blip on the radar instead of a sign of the coming times a la the Steelers locker room dysfunction.

There are players on this team now that love Baker but also love Duke, his professionalism and unassuming humble nature and know that the trade request was not "self-inflicted." They're watching how Baker is talking about Duke and taking notes about how he speaks about guys when there is a FO/player clash. What becomes of it will have a lot to do with the relationship work Baker does and understanding he develops with the guys along the way. 

I’m confident we won’t turn into the Steelers mess because Jimmy doesn’t have a lot of patience. It might be the ONLY time where it’s good to have a impulsive owner. He canned Todd Haley pretty quick.

 

Just win games.

Edited by candyman93

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Posted (edited)

@Mind Character

No, no, no. Duke didn't suddenly want out when he found out the team had shopped him...he was already unhappy about his role. That's the crux of it. He thinks he's more than just a limited role player. 

I'd imagine the team shopped him because, essentially, they don't agree and they recognize they're paying him more than he's worth. 

It's self inflicted because the guy thinks he's better then he is and became disgruntled over his role, then offended he was being shopped around. 

 

Edited by BrownLeader

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Imo Duke needs to stop whining and do his job.  He wasn’t a featured back when he signed the deal and he’s still well paid tbh.

And fwiw I’m almost always on the side of the player, but not in this instance. Dude is well compensated and had the chance to play elsewhere and chose to take the Browns money.

Sack up and play.

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16 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Imo Duke needs to stop whining and do his job.  He wasn’t a featured back when he signed the deal and he’s still well paid tbh.

And fwiw I’m almost always on the side of the player, but not in this instance. Dude is well compensated and had the chance to play elsewhere and chose to take the Browns money.

Sack up and play.

Yeah I’m usually pro labor too.  Not this time 

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1 hour ago, Kiwibrown said:

The next issue is that his trade value is probably 0. 

This is my only issue with his stance.

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