Official 2020 Non-Rush LB Thread

[SBLIII]

LB class in shambles again

[Jeezla]

1 hour ago, SBLIII said:

LB class in shambles again

Because 1 guy, who hasn't played in a year and still had numerous question marks regarding everything about him besides his athleticism, is now returning?

[Jeezla]

I think Logan Wilson is getting slept on, along with Dante Olson.

Give me Woodward and one of those 2 for the Eagles, please.

[CWood21]

11 minutes ago, Jeezla said:

Because 1 guy, who hasn't played in a year and still had numerous question marks regarding everything about him besides his athleticism, is now returning?

It really wasn't that good to begin with, and you take away one of the better ones thought to be available and it's a really poor off-ball LB class.  You've got Isaiah Simmons then a massive gap followed by Kenneth Murray and then another gap followed by everyone else.  This isn't the draft class to look to attack that off-ball LB.

[Ragnarok]

24 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

It really wasn't that good to begin with, and you take away one of the better ones thought to be available and it's a really poor off-ball LB class.  You've got Isaiah Simmons then a massive gap followed by Kenneth Murray and then another gap followed by everyone else.  This isn't the draft class to look to attack that off-ball LB.

Question...why do you think there is a massive gap between Simmons and Murray?  I get the massive gap after those two, but not sure why you think they are so far apart.

[Jeezla]

31 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

It really wasn't that good to begin with, and you take away one of the better ones thought to be available and it's a really poor off-ball LB class.  You've got Isaiah Simmons then a massive gap followed by Kenneth Murray and then another gap followed by everyone else.  This isn't the draft class to look to attack that off-ball LB.

At least next year should be nice with Parsons and Moses at the top.

Isaiah Simmons (Stud prospect)
David Woodward
Kenneth Murray
Troy Dye
Jacob Phillips
Jordyn Brooks
Evan Weaver
Nate Landman
Dante Olson
Logan Wilson
Francis Bernard
Paddy Fisher
Joe Bachie
Malik Harrison
KJ Britt
Chazz Surratt (If he declares)
Dele Harding
Jahad Woods (If he declares)

It's not loaded, but there could be some plus starters in there, maybe a couple of pro bowlers if they develop, and Simmons is a "blue chip" prospect at the top. It could definitely be worse, but I guess it's just average overall, especially if guys like Surratt and Woods return to school.
 

Edited December 31, 2019 by Jeezla

[CWood21]

5 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

Question...why do you think there is a massive gap between Simmons and Murray?  I get the massive gap after those two, but not sure why you think they are so far apart.

Simmons is on another planet athletically.  Not that Kenneth Murray is a bad athlete by any means, but I'm not sure we've seen an athlete quite like Simmons in quite some time.  He's an athletic freak.  And I'm not overly fond of Kenneth Murray in regards to run support.  He's not bad by any means, but he's not someone I really want mixing it up there with the big guys.

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, Jeezla said:

It's not loaded, but there could be some plus starters in there, maybe a couple of pro bowlers if they develop, and Simmons is a "blue chip" prospect at the top. It could definitely be worse, but I guess it's just average overall.

I mean, there's probably bound to be some solid depth in this class.  But just doing a quick glance at the TDN rankings for those LBs and I'm not sure there's more than 2 (Isaiah Simmons and Kenneth Murray) who are worthy of top 64 picks.

[Ragnarok]

Just now, CWood21 said:

Simmons is on another planet athletically.  Not that Kenneth Murray is a bad athlete by any means, but I'm not sure we've seen an athlete quite like Simmons in quite some time.  He's an athletic freak.  And I'm not overly fond of Kenneth Murray in regards to run support.  He's not bad by any means, but he's not someone I really want mixing it up there with the big guys.

Devin White, Roquan Smith, and Tremaine Edmunds are all elite level athletes from the past two drafts.  I know that Simmons has played safety a lot, so he has that going for him, but would you really put him in a class above those three guys from a pure athleticism aspect?

[Jeezla]

Just now, CWood21 said:

I mean, there's probably bound to be some solid depth in this class.  But just doing a quick glance at the TDN rankings for those LBs and I'm not sure there's more than 2 (Isaiah Simmons and Kenneth Murray) who are worthy of top 64 picks.

Woodward definitely is, if his health checks out. 

[Jeezla]

6 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

Devin White, Roquan Smith, and Tremaine Edmunds are all elite level athletes from the past two drafts.  I know that Simmons has played safety a lot, so he has that going for him, but would you really put him in a class above those three guys from a pure athleticism aspect?

Devin Bush killed the combine too
Simmons athleticism isn't worlds apart, but his natural coverage ability is. As great of an athlete as Devin White is, he was nowhere near as good in coverage as Simmons. Kuechly and Pat Willis weren't as good as Simmons is in coverage. The biggest question mark with Simmons is how well he can take on blocks when teams run at him. Other than that, he checks every box for a LB off with a paint brush.

Edited December 31, 2019 by Jeezla

[Ragnarok]

18 minutes ago, Jeezla said:

Devin Bush killed the combine too
Simmons athleticism isn't worlds apart, but his natural coverage ability is. As great of an athlete as Devin White is, he was nowhere near as good in coverage as Simmons. Kuechly and Pat Willis weren't as good as Simmons is in coverage. The biggest question mark with Simmons is how well he can take on blocks when teams run at him. Other than that, he checks every box for a LB off with a paint brush.

Good call on Bush.  I didn't even mention LVE and Rashaan Evans who are both becoming excellent 1st round picks.

This is part of what I was getting at.  Yes, Simmons is elite in coverage.  But taking on blocks head on is a questions mark.  One that the guys I mentioned didn't really have.  I wouldn't disagree that Simmons has the best coverage ability of any of those guys.  I also think he will excel at chasing down the run.  However, I do wonder how he will hold up when a team runs at him in the NFL.

[SmittyBacall]

10 hours ago, Ragnarok said:

but would you really put him in a class above those three guys from a pure athleticism aspect?

I wouldn’t say that for sure at this point (combine can sway this), but I do think Simmons is at least a different kind of elite athlete compared to those guys - if that makes sense. His combination of size, speed, and especially fluidity stands out for me the most. He’s a rarer breed as far as elite athletes go. I’ve never seen someone his size move like he does in space. It’s absurd. 

White doesn’t have the fluidity; Roquan and Bush don’t have the size; Tremaine has the size and speed but still trails Simmons in his ability to operate in space. Simmons is just otherworldly.

[Ozzy]

11 hours ago, Ragnarok said:

Devin White, Roquan Smith, and Tremaine Edmunds are all elite level athletes from the past two drafts.  I know that Simmons has played safety a lot, so he has that going for him, but would you really put him in a class above those three guys from a pure athleticism aspect?

Isaiah Simmons has played safety for most of the year.  Devin White, Roquan, Edmunds, Bush any of them could simply not play safety in college much less the NFL.

Simmons is such a great athlete he could arguably play safety in the right system in the NFL.  Brian Urlacher, Karlos Dansby and Thomas Davis all played safety in college, Dansby and Davis transition to LB and stayed at LB in college later in their career.  Urlacher was back and forth I believe but I never got the chance to really watch him play in his college career, I should try to find some tape on him.

Urlacher might be the only athlete similar to Simmons in his ability to play safety at that size and also be a linebacker depending on the play call.  I do not think Simmons will have a problem if asked to take on contact a little more, he is not asked to do that on Clemson much because LBs like James Skalski, Chad Smith and Baylon Spector do that and Simmons athletically covers up for them all on the back end.  Could argue he covers up for Muse as well at times or when Wallace is around the line of scrimmage blitzing.   

Will be interesting to see how Simmons does against LSU, he did not have a great game against Ohio State because he was back in coverage so much but did have some nice plays.  Still for a guy 6-4 230 doing what he does is insane.

[Jeezla]

Chazz Surratt moves around like a WR. He's really intriguing as a QB to LB convert. His run D is so unpolished, but he has the right mentality. I hope he declares.