HTTRDynasty Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Ozzy said: Putting an athlete like Sweat down on the line and rushing constantly is a little bit of a waste of his athletic ability. Not to mention he is not amazing at the point of contact and might struggle holding the edge in a 4/3 where a 3/4 he can move around more and be dropped back in coverage more often and use that athletic ability and lack of power at the point of attack. He is not great getting off blocks or at least was not in college, he won on that athletic ability and bending the edge, does not mean he could hold the edge though in a 4/3. I agree Young would be too hard to pass up which is why if the Bengals pick they take him over a QB. Because who are the choices, Tua who has health issues and Joe Burrow who is a little bit of a reach as the #1 overall pick with Chase Young sitting right there. Chase Young should be the #1 pick in the draft right now but that could changed depending on how things go the rest of the season, but doubt it does. Redskins have more of an issue with Haskins long term, I was not a huge fan of his on Ohio State and he has not looked great as a rookie. Everyone ripped on Daniel Jones and Jones has looked far more comfortable at this level than Haskins has. Maybe these last few weeks he will get a chance to settle in but clearly his accuracy was a little overrated in college when he gets pressure in the pocket now at the next level. And I always said Ohio State was freaking stacked at WR last year which maybe inflated his success and how good he looks, and it shows in the NFL, he had better receivers in college than he does on the Redskins right now. Obviously the best WR on the Redskins right now is McLaurin and he was not even the best WR on Ohio State last year, no way. When it is all done seven receivers on that team last year with Haskins will be in the NFL potentially. 1. Not that I hold it against you - because I'd watch as little of the Redskins as possible too if I wasn't a fan - but it's clear you haven't watched Sweat this year. Other than Payne, he's our best run defender up front, which PFF also agrees with FWIW. He's bulked up considerably from his college weight, and is able to anchor better than any other EDGE on our team. His pass rush has been sub-par this year though. IMO, him having to think so much as an OLB is holding him back and he'd be much more productive if his only job was to put his hand in the dirt and get after the QB/defend the edge. 2. Burrow and Tua are both far better choices than Finley. And when you have the opportunity, you need to lock up the most important position on the field if you don't have a high-upside QB waiting in the wings. 3. Nothing has changed with Haskins, only the impatience of the fans and media around him. He's always been a raw, high-upside QB who was going to need time to adjust to being an NFL QB. I was a strong proponent of letting him sit all year, but that was before knowing we'd likely end up with a top 3 pick. Now that the situation has changed, I agree with playing him the rest of the season to see what we have. If Haskins doesn't show any flashes and we don't see noticeable improvement from his first start this year to his last, I would agree with taking Tua or Burrow. But I think he'll show enough flashes for us to feel confident in his NFL ceiling, and we'll draft Young and allow Haskins to develop and attempt to reach that ceiling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 10 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said: 1. Not that I hold it against you - because I'd watch as little of the Redskins as possible too if I wasn't a fan - but it's clear you haven't watched Sweat this year. Other than Payne, he's our best run defender up front, which PFF also agrees with FWIW. He's bulked up considerably from his college weight, and is able to anchor better than any other EDGE on our team. His pass rush has been sub-par this year though. IMO, him having to think so much as an OLB is holding him back and he'd be much more productive if his only job was to put his hand in the dirt and get after the QB/defend the edge. 2. Burrow and Tua are both far better choices than Finley. And when you have the opportunity, you need to lock up the most important position on the field if you don't have a high-upside QB waiting in the wings. 3. Nothing has changed with Haskins, only the impatience of the fans and media around him. He's always been a raw, high-upside QB who was going to need time to adjust to being an NFL QB. I was a strong proponent of letting him sit all year, but that was before knowing we'd likely end up with a top 3 pick. Now that the situation has changed, I agree with playing him the rest of the season to see what we have. If Haskins doesn't show any flashes and we don't see noticeable improvement from his first start this year to his last, I would agree with taking Tua or Burrow. But I think he'll show enough flashes for us to feel confident in his NFL ceiling, and we'll draft Young and allow Haskins to develop and attempt to reach that ceiling. I can see why your desire to get Young, but draft wise it does not make much sense to me honestly and a lot has to change to make it work. You are correct you have watched more Redskins ball this year than I have, however I am pretty sure I watched more of Montez Sweat in college than you have. But great if he is doing well in the run defense at times but just because he is good on a team that is not great at stopping the run does not say much. Also I would say Matt Ioannidis is better at the point of attack on the line of scrimmage than Sweat is no question. But good if he improved that part of his game. Still I say to me Chase Young would be great for them sure, but probably will not be around when they pick and might not be a scheme fit anywhere based on the team needs they have. Sure it could happen but they would only have to cut the 2nd highest paid player on the team currently this year to do it, is not the 2nd highest paid in 2020 but still is one of the higher paid guys on the team. Then move around multiple guys and have to sign new linebackers like you said as well probably a new ILB and OLB, I would not have much long term hope for Foster at all. It can happen yeah but it is not that easy to do and they would have to make a ton of changes to accomplish it and switch from a 3/4 to a 4/3 and honestly I hope Young does not get drafted by a team than runs a 3/4 like I said before. Draft wise Young to the Bengals #1 and Thomas to the Redskins #2 makes a ton of sense honestly but sure that might not be how it all goes down. Sure Young being a Maryland kid would be cool to see him to the Redskins, does not mean they will even get a shot at him unless they lose more than the Bengals do as this year closes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownLeader Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 41 minutes ago, Ozzy said: You are correct you have watched more Redskins ball this year than I have, however I am pretty sure I watched more of Montez Sweat in college than you have. But great if he is doing well in the run defense at times but just because he is good on a team that is not great at stopping the run does not say much. Also I would say Matt Ioannidis is better at the point of attack on the line of scrimmage than Sweat is no question. But good if he improved that part of his game. Eh...watched a ton too and I actually thought Sweat would translate better to a edge run defender than consistent pass rusher. Comped him to a bigger Manny Lawson. Just saying..;) I assume your not infatuated with Burrow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, BrownLeader said: Eh...watched a ton too and I actually thought Sweat would translate better to a edge run defender than consistent pass rusher. Comped him to a bigger Manny Lawson. Just saying..;) I assume your not infatuated with Burrow? Since when is Manny Lawson, a thin athletic freak show a great college run defender or run defender in general? Awesome wingspan, athletic freak in college that started being noticed when he blocked kicks with that athletic ability and wingspan, but played at what 225 early in his career on college? Solid pro, very similar physically to Sweat but with either one I would never say yeah that is what I want as a edge run defender from the DE position in a 4/3? Guess people have different expectations on what a run defender on a 4/3 DE position looks like, sure they can get some TFLs and get into the backfield but neither have the frame to totally control people at the line of scrimmage. And didn't Manny Lawson play in 3/4 teams pretty much through his pro career and was not a hand on the ground 4/3 DE down in and down out? Danielle Hunter is better than both, and even he is not this all world run defender or something. Sure can get off blocks and get some run pressure from time to time but is a pass rusher who has developed nice hand usage at the next level. Still would not call him a good run defender but at least he can hold leverage and his position on the edge with his power because he is a Adonis physically out there. Maybe Sweat can become that but his hand usage will have to improve a lot. Hunter is similar to Young I think would have been hurt being in a 3/4 and he could have been easily drafted by a team that ran a 3/4 when he came out for the draft. Burrow is just fine, but if the Bengals pick #1 overall and go with Burrow, that would be a disappointment. Why pass on Chase Young, there is zero reason to do that. Burrow should be fine but Young is a better prospect in terms of upside than Burrow is I feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berlin calling Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 while everybody has been focussing on Tua, any news on Raekwon Davis? Didn't look good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtmmike Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 Who do have ranked as 1and 2 if young de osu and Thomas ot georgia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, mtmmike said: Who do have ranked as 1and 2 if young de osu and Thomas ot georgia I have Young and Tua 1 and 2 but after today and basically Tua most likely having his Alabama career now over based on that injured potentially no way he goes #1 to the Bengals or whoever picks 1st or even 2nd for that matter. Depends on the teams of course but if it goes like this I would say these guys go first three picked to these teams right now. 1 Bengals: Chase Young 2 Redskins: Andrew Thomas 3 Giants: CeeDee Lamb Miami, Tampa or Denver could get a steal at QB. Even Miami with Rosen they might like him long term but I doubt it so Joe Burrow I think they would love and a team could steal Tua based on his injury history. Sure that is a gamble but the guy is super talented if healthy but that is the big question, will be curious how much he drops. Before he got hurt today, even with injured lower body he was throwing darts and looked good despite his lack of mobility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtmmike Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, Ozzy said: I have Young and Tua 1 and 2 but after today and basically Tua most likely having his Alabama career now over based on that injured potentially no way he goes #1 to the Bengals or whoever picks 1st or even 2nd for that matter. Depends on the teams of course but if it goes like this I would say these guys go first three picked to these teams right now. 1 Bengals: Chase Young 2 Redskins: Andrew Thomas 3 Giants: CeeDee Lamb Miami, Tampa or Denver could get a steal at QB. Even Miami with Rosen they might like him long term but I doubt it so Joe Burrow I think they would love and a team could steal Tua based on his injury history. Sure that is a gamble but the guy is super talented if healthy but that is the big question, will be curious how much he drops. Before he got hurt today, even with injured lower body he was throwing darts and looked good despite his lack of mobility. Thank you if I am the browns I am going to try and trade up for young and beat up on the nfl for the next 10years 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownLeader Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 7 hours ago, Ozzy said: Since when is Manny Lawson, a thin athletic freak show a great college run defender or run defender in general? Awesome wingspan, athletic freak in college that started being noticed when he blocked kicks with that athletic ability and wingspan, but played at what 225 early in his career on college? Solid pro, very similar physically to Sweat but with either one I would never say yeah that is what I want as a edge run defender from the DE position in a 4/3? Guess people have different expectations on what a run defender on a 4/3 DE position looks like, sure they can get some TFLs and get into the backfield but neither have the frame to totally control people at the line of scrimmage. And didn't Manny Lawson play in 3/4 teams pretty much through his pro career and was not a hand on the ground 4/3 DE down in and down out? Danielle Hunter is better than both, and even he is not this all world run defender or something. Sure can get off blocks and get some run pressure from time to time but is a pass rusher who has developed nice hand usage at the next level. Still would not call him a good run defender but at least he can hold leverage and his position on the edge with his power because he is a Adonis physically out there. Maybe Sweat can become that but his hand usage will have to improve a lot. Hunter is similar to Young I think would have been hurt being in a 3/4 and he could have been easily drafted by a team that ran a 3/4 when he came out for the draft. Burrow is just fine, but if the Bengals pick #1 overall and go with Burrow, that would be a disappointment. Why pass on Chase Young, there is zero reason to do that. Burrow should be fine but Young is a better prospect in terms of upside than Burrow is I feel. Lawson played primarily as a stand up LB as a pro and was a great run defender. He went 1st round because he was expected to be a great pass rusher too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Epenesa had a good game today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Jonathan Greenard is going to make a NFL team very happy. He's a really smart and disciplined player. Has a well-rounded game as a pass rusher. Good run defender. And is rarely caught out of position. Snuffs out screens and bootlegs to his side. He may not be a 10+ sack per year guy in the NFL, but he's going to be a glue guy who sticks around for awhile if he stays healthy. Could see him turning out like Brandon Graham. Basically, a player who is perpetually underrated by his box score numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danand Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 I am very very interested in Curtis Weaver. There is effort and technique, smart decisions, tenacity and enough ability to drop into coverage. Got some inside and outside moves as well. There is a little bit of bad weight. If he could convert those lbs into muscle, I think he could add even more to his repetoire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Chase Young and Yetur Gross-Matos both had the kind of game we'd expect from them. Chase Young, 3 Sacks, 4 TFL Yetur Gross-Matos, 2 Sacks, 3.5 TFL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 That's the first good game Gross-Matos has had in some time. Though if you're going to have a good game, having it against the #2 team is opportune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 14 hours ago, Danger said: Chase Young and Yetur Gross-Matos both had the kind of game we'd expect from them. Chase Young, 3 Sacks, 4 TFL Yetur Gross-Matos, 2 Sacks, 3.5 TFL Gross-Matos will be a top 15 pick if he comes out no question. But Chase Young, wow after missing those past few games was outstanding and honestly I think he should be put into the Heisman consideration or at least be invited, especially if he has a great game against Michigan and the Big Ten championship game. Kid is playing out this world good. Honestly it is more rare to see a DE like him being so productive than a QB like Burrow playing like he has been, that happens a lot, what Young is doing does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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