Official 2020 CB/S Thread

[FalconFan13]

2 minutes ago, Counselor said:

Cro analyzed what two plays? 

2 plays but when im watching him do similar things causing him bad separation away from the WR and not forcing the guy back into his safety's putting them into a bad spot over and over again in other videos.  That means it's not just 2 plays but his athleticism can make up for this and has often at the college level.  Yall seem to think i hate the dude when it's not true as i like his upside.  My problem with him is as much upside as he has shown he has shown as many if not more negatives which to me doesn't show a top 10 to 16 player.   Would i take him later absolutely do i want a better prospect than him at 16 right now you dang right.

[Scoundrel]

Just now, FalconFan13 said:

2 plays but when im watching him do similar things causing him bad separation away from the WR and not forcing the guy back into his safety's putting them into a bad spot over and over again in other videos.  That means it's not just 2 plays but his athleticism can make up for this and has often at the college level.  Yall seem to think i hate the dude when it's not true as i like his upside.  My problem with him is as much upside as he has shown he has shown as many if not more negatives which to me doesn't show a top 10 to 16 player.   Would i take him later absolutely do i want a better prospect than him at 16 right now you dang right.

I understand what you are saying. He does have things to work on to not become Justin Gilbert. But I like what I’ve seen. 

[jrry32]

7 minutes ago, FalconFan13 said:

Agreed on Crom which also leads me to believe he worked very hard to get where he ended up as so he knows what it takes and is why i trust his judgement now.    Im not saying Henderson can't be very good im saying in a CB class this deep he's not THAT MUCH BETTER than alot of them are to make him worthy of a top 10 to 15 pick like some people are saying now.

You're not drafting him for what he is. You're drafting him for what he'll be.

7 minutes ago, Counselor said:

AJ and Mike looked faster to me on tape. 

Can't agree with that. He runs away from people on vertical routes. Even got behind Okudah and Moss'd him (but couldn't quite get his foot in bounds).

[jrry32]

3 minutes ago, FalconFan13 said:

2 plays but when im watching him do similar things causing him bad separation away from the WR and not forcing the guy back into his safety's putting them into a bad spot over and over again in other videos.  That means it's not just 2 plays but his athleticism can make up for this and has often at the college level.  Yall seem to think i hate the dude when it's not true as i like his upside.  My problem with him is as much upside as he has shown he has shown as many if not more negatives which to me doesn't show a top 10 to 16 player.   Would i take him later absolutely do i want a better prospect than him at 16 right now you dang right.

I'd have to see the play, but that might have more to do with our safeties than Henderson. They weren't exactly good last year and had a habit of hanging the CBs out to dry.

[Scoundrel]

1 minute ago, jrry32 said:

You're not drafting him for what he is. You're drafting him for what he'll be.

Can't agree with that. He runs away from people on vertical routes. Even got behind Okudah and Moss'd him (but couldn't quite get his foot in bounds).

Didn’t ask you to agree 

[FalconFan13]

4 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

You're not drafting him for what he is. You're drafting him for what he'll be.

Can't agree with that. He runs away from people on vertical routes. Even got behind Okudah and Moss'd him (but couldn't quite get his foot in bounds).

I understand that but atleast for me i need to see more before hand to go top 16.  I hold the top half of the 1st round for guys who not only show his upside but has also showed more to back it up.  For me the mid 20's to late 1st or 2nd round is where you take massive upside guys that needs a good bit of work.   I know no prospect is guaranteed no matter how good they are coming out but theirs enough guys with his upside at other positions to choose from that has shown more already with less flaws lol.   

[Scoundrel]

1 minute ago, FalconFan13 said:

I understand that but atleast for me i need to see more before hand to go top 16.  I hold the top half of the 1st round for guys who not only show his upside but has also showed more to back it up.  For me the mid 20's to late 1st or 2nd round is where you take massive upside guys that needs a good bit of work.   I know no prospect is guaranteed no matter how good they are coming out but theirs enough guys with his upside at other positions to choose from that has shown more already with less flaws lol.   

What has Chaisson shown? Or Murray with his subpar instincts?

[.Buzz]

4 minutes ago, Counselor said:

What has Chaisson shown? Or Murray with his subpar instincts?

Literally watched Murray run full speed into the back of his NT who was taking on a double team to open a hole for him a couple days ago.

Chaisson also is super raw and likely going to take a couple years to develop as a pass rusher (if he even does develop).

Yet Henderson, who carries a lot of the traits you look for in an elite man to man corner (which are the corners you take high), isn't worth it/someone that shouldn't be taken high due to the risk.

That's just not a thought I can get behind.

[Scoundrel]

1 minute ago, .Buzz said:

Literally watched Murray run full speed into the back of his NT who was taking on a double team to open a hole for him.

Chaisson also is super raw and likely going to take a couple years to develop as a pass rusher.

Yet Henderson, who carries a lot of the traits you look for in an elite man to man corner (which are the corners you take high), isn't worth it/you don't want to take the risk.

That's just not a thought I can get behind.

I have all three players on my dynasty team so I clearly like all three.... but I don’t get how you can want Chaisson and Murray but turn your nose up to Henderson for the reasons he has stated. 

[FalconFan13]

7 minutes ago, Counselor said:

What has Chaisson shown? Or Murray with his subpar instincts?

Murray actually hasn't and is why i prefer not to have him at 16 either.  I actually question murray's coverage at the next level as he hasn't shown it much in college.   Im willing to trade down and get a pick to get him preferably but not at 16.  Chaisson i would agree as a pure edge rusher i wouldn't take at 16.  But im drafting him for our SLB position not a edge rusher position like others might be drafting him.   We use our SLB as a 3-4 OLB / leo hybrid which allows him to use his instincts and tracking abilities well which he does have.  For me Chaissons biggest thing he needs to work on is his pass rushing ability. 

My preferable choice is to trade up for Simmons into the top 10  if he falls or for  Kinlaw/Brown if either of them fall to say 11 or 12.      If not a trade up then a trade back is preffered unless a really talented guy drops to us like Kinlaw.  If it's between Chaisson and Henderson then im taking the position we need more at SLB.    I also hold pas rushing more important than coverage so that ties into it as well even though thats only part of his game and not the main thing for me at SLB.      I'll take it a step further i actually think the top 3 safety's in this draft in Winfield, Mckinney, and Delpit are better players coming out than Henderson and would prefer us to go safety which in our specific scheme is more important than CB as well.

Edited April 18, 2020 by FalconFan13

[jrry32]

20 minutes ago, Counselor said:

Didn’t ask you to agree 

I know. You asked me to show you the way, like I did on Donald and Kittle. 

[Scoundrel]

1 minute ago, jrry32 said:

I know. You asked me to show you the way, like I did on Donald and Kittle. 

Hah Those were my own doings. 

[Scoundrel]

6 minutes ago, FalconFan13 said:

Murray actually hasn't and is why i prefer not to have him at 16 either.  I actually question murray's coverage at the next level as he hasn't shown it much in college.   Im willing to trade down and get a pick to get him preferably but not at 16.  Chaisson i would agree as a pure edge rusher i wouldn't take at 16.  But im drafting him for our SLB position not a edge rusher position like others might be drafting him.   We use our SLB as a 3-4 OLB / leo hybrid which allows him to use his instincts and tracking abilities well which he does have.  For me Chaissons biggest thing he needs to work on is his pass rushing ability. 

My preferable choice is to trade up for Simmons into the top 10  if he falls or for  Kinlaw/Brown if either of them fall to say 11 or 12.      If not a trade up then a trade back is preffered unless a really talented guy drops to us like Kinlaw.  If it's between Chaisson and Henderson then im taking the position we need more at SLB.    I also hold pas rushing more important than coverage so that ties into it as well even though thats only part of his game and not the main thing for me at SLB.      I'll take it a step further i actually think the top 3 safety's in this draft in Winfield, Mckinney, and Delpit are better players coming out than Henderson and would prefer us to go safety which in our specific scheme is more important than CB as well.

We weren’t talking Falcon scheme specific when you said the top 16 players should have shown more. Which is why I brought up Murray and Chaisson two players you have lobbied for on different mocks at 16. Both who haven’t shown more.

[FalconFan13]

9 minutes ago, Counselor said:

We weren’t talking Falcon scheme specific when you said the top 16 players should have shown more. Which is why I brought up Murray and Chaisson two players you have lobbied for on different mocks at 16. Both who haven’t shown more.

To be fair when im replying to those mocks since you are bringing me up replying to them i am replying in falcon scheme specific replies you gotta give me that lol.  Now and you are gonna like this one i don't view Chaisson nor Murray as top 16 players in this draft it just so happens thats whats available to me to choose from in most mocks.  You can surely see me ask for Kinlaw everytime he is available over both of them or ask for a trade up for a guy i deem a top 10 worthy player at a need like SImmons or Okudah if they fall low enough.    But if all i got left is Chaisson, Henderson, and Murray to choose from at 16 and the other options are gone then im taking Chaisson as it's a bigger position of need and i think he has as much upside as henderson and also i think his position isn't as strong as CB in round 2.  SOOOOO  i go with a position at 16 with a similar talent if i have to and draft the stronger position in CB in round 2 where the talent is absolutely loaded with guys i view as good if not better than Henderson.   Does that help explain why i choose them that way in the mock drafts?

Also to note i have not lobbied for Murray he is not one of my go to guys he is just whats available if Chaisson is gone although im starting to come aroudn on Queen i think i might like him more than Murray.  But for either of them i prefer a trade down and even then i might target safety 1st as i really like the safety's in this class in the late 1st to early 2nd.

Edited April 18, 2020 by FalconFan13

[Scoundrel]

10 minutes ago, FalconFan13 said:

To be fair when im replying to those mocks since you are bringing me up replying to them i am replying in falcon scheme specific replies you gotta give me that lol.  Now and you are gonna like this one i don't view Chaisson nor Murray as top 16 players in this draft it just so happens thats whats available to me to choose from in most mocks.  You can surely see me ask for Kinlaw everytime he is available over both of them or ask for a trade up for a guy i deem a top 10 worthy player at a need like SImmons or Okudah if they fall low enough.    But if all i got left is Chaisson, Henderson, and Murray to choose from at 16 and the other options are gone then im taking Chaisson as it's a bigger position of need and i think he has as much upside as henderson and also i think his position isn't as strong as CB in round 2.  SOOOOO  i go with a position at 16 with a similar talent if i have to and draft the stronger position in CB in round 2 where the talent is absolutely loaded with guys i view as good if not better than Henderson.   Does that help explain why i choose them that way in the mock drafts?

Also to note i have not lobbied for Murray he is not one of my go to guys he is just whats available if Chaisson is gone although im starting to come aroudn on Queen i think i might like him more than Murray.  But for either of them i prefer a trade down and even then i might target safety 1st as i really like the safety's in this class in the late 1st to early 2nd.

I just felt like debating tonight lol