Steins Gate Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 minute ago, JTagg7754 said: No one with any logical ability to scout players would take him in the first but unfortunately the market will make it happen. It's a terrible class and he's high on people's lists for some reason. Everyone has potential but most who pan out don't 💩 the bed against awful competition like Love did. The one thing I can't wrap my mind around is why people think a guy who couldn't was MWC defenses will be able to do it in the NFL. Reading defenses is one of the concepts of playing QB people learn from the very beginning. He should at least somewhat grasp it by now but looking at last year, it's clear as day that he hasn't You could be right. Love has all the physical stuff you want, but the mental stuff needs fixing. I'm not high on Eason, personally. He is a Doctor Jeckel / Mister Hyde kind of player. You never know which one will show up. But he has potential too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, JTagg7754 said: Hey, that's your opinion and I'm not sure I can take it seriously bc you've proven to be extremely bias in this discussion but it is your's for sure. I feel he's on par with Love but that's fine. Eason still checks more boxes IMO and I wouldn't consider him a first round pick at all How am I bias in this discussion because I like Love as a prospect? Am I a Utah State Fan? No. Am I a Love fan? No. Love is my 3rd ranked QB behind Burrow and Tua, with a huge gap after Tua.  I see tremendous pocket presence on tape, very solid under pressure doesn’t get rattled, very accurate passer and can use both touch and fastballs, can throw completely contorted like Mahomes, and has solid mobility.  Easons Pocket Presence is below average.  His touch throws are almost non existent. And his composure under pressure is among the worst in the class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, BayRaider said: How am I bias in this discussion because I like Love as a prospect? Am I a Utah State Fan? No. Am I a Love fan? No. Love is my 3rd ranked QB behind Burrow and Tua, with a huge gap after Tua.  I see tremendous pocket presence on tape, very solid under pressure doesn’t get rattled, very accurate passer and can use both touch and fastballs, can throw completely contorted like Mahomes, and has solid mobility.  Easons Pocket Presence is below average.  His touch throws are almost non existent. And his composure under pressure is among the worst in the class. I took out the bias part bc I didn't want to get you all worked up but it happened lol. "How am I bias?" Well, for starters, you compared a part of his game to Mahomes lol. You called him very accurate yet the data clearly contradicts that. Same with his ability to perform under pressure. He does use good touch and has mobility though, you're right there. He can't read defenses to save his life. He regressed from the previous year against a weaker schedule. When he played teams worth a damn, he looked even worse. You claim he's "very solid under pressure" yet data says he was under pressure more this year than last and he was abysmal this year especially compared to last. There's so much more. Feel free to read https://www.pff.com/news/college-buyer-beware-on-utah-state-qb-jordan-love He's just a very average IMO who will get drafted far too high based on his position and the terribleness of this class. Luckily we have a brilliant mind as our GM and he should be smart enough to see this and keep us far, far, far away from him until the end of day 2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steins Gate Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, JTagg7754 said: I took out the bias part bc I didn't want to get you all worked up but it happened lol. "How am I bias?" Well, for starters, you compared a part of his game to Mahomes lol. You called him very accurate yet the data clearly contradicts that. Same with his ability to perform under pressure. He does use good touch and has mobility though, you're right there. He can't read defenses to save his life. He regressed from the previous year against a weaker schedule. When he played teams worth a damn, he looked even worse. You claim he's "very solid under pressure" yet data says he was under pressure more this year than last and he was abysmal this year especially compared to last. There's so much more. Feel free to read https://www.pff.com/news/college-buyer-beware-on-utah-state-qb-jordan-love He's just a very average IMO who will get drafted far too high based on his position and the terribleness of this class. Luckily we have a brilliant mind as our GM and he should be smart enough to see this and keep us far, far, far away from him until the end of day 2. Most of the time red flags cause FOs to steer clear of a player. But that dreaded word "potential" gets teams salivating. I am not immune to this myself (one of the reasons I like Love). What if I were to tell you that one of the greatest QBs in NFL History had more red flags than Jordan Love? For the record, I am NOT comparing Love to this HOF QB, but sometimes red flags can be overblown. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/dan-marino-1.html Dan Marino sucked in the 1982 season. If I were an NFL GM back then, I wouldn't have drafted him. And I would have been regretting it afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 43 minutes ago, Steins Gate said: Most of the time red flags cause FOs to steer clear of a player. But that dreaded word "potential" gets teams salivating. I am not immune to this myself (one of the reasons I like Love). What if I were to tell you that one of the greatest QBs in NFL History had more red flags than Jordan Love? For the record, I am NOT comparing Love to this HOF QB, but sometimes red flags can be overblown. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/dan-marino-1.html Dan Marino sucked in the 1982 season. If I were an NFL GM back then, I wouldn't have drafted him. And I would have been regretting it afterwards. You'll always be able to find the exception to the rule. I can show you countless players that had "potential" despite being below average in college who didn't pan out. I never buy into potential. I like production and this is probably why I'm more harsh on QBs compared to a lot of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steins Gate Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, JTagg7754 said: You'll always be able to find the exception to the rule. I can show you countless players that had "potential" despite being below average in college who didn't pan out. I never buy into potential. I like production and this is probably why I'm more harsh on QBs compared to a lot of people. I can respect that. Jamarcus had potential...… The red flags for Jordan Love are a concern. But I look at the type of red flags. I am more concerned about Love's seeming lack of maturity (busted for marijuana use and almost completely folding after the coaching staff left). The one team I can see Jordan Love succeeding with is MIA (though it's VERY unlikely he goes there). They already have a stop gap QB to let him sit and learn. They have switched to Chan Gailey's offense which is an NFL version of the spread. Love shouldn't have too difficult a time learning it. So like you said, it's the reading of defenses that will be the challenge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awsi Dooger Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) On 2/11/2020 at 9:40 PM, BayRaider said: Eason throws non stop fast balls, has little touch ability, panics under pressure, and has below average pocket presence.  Love uses touch extremely well on passes when he needs to, great pocket presence, and he’s mobile.  They are in completely different tiers to me. Love is a project. Eason is a hail marry. That is a fantastic summary. Eason is one of these guys who slobbers on the eye black, trots out there for his next mindless succession of 100 mph fast balls, and somehow thinks that qualifies him as a football player. Jordan Love was pure swagger in 2018. I don't see how anyone can ignore it, and somehow pretend it was a mirage or will never show up again. As I've mentioned, as a Dolphins fan I hope they take Tua with #5 and Love with #18. Maximize opportunity at the most vital position while all the conventional wisdom clods make fools of themselves in derision. Maybe I like Jordan Love so much because he fits everything I look for as a sports bettor. All of my systems rely on long term big picture and not current form. I scoff at current form. In fact, I wager against current form dozens of times every week. My golf matchup systems are designed to take advantage of superior players who have dropped in reputation based on current form, and are now matched up against lesser players who have risen based on short term form. Who cares how good you are playing? The criteria is...how good are you? I absolutely love it when those matchups give me a star player who has recently been playing at C level, and suddenly is matched against a C player who recently has been playing at A level. Lotsa luck to that C player. Quite hilarious how fragile that current form really is. Jordan's Love 2018 is how good he is. Jordan Love's 2019 is how good he is playing. Not exactly a difficult call Edited February 13, 2020 by Awsi Dooger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, JTagg7754 said: I took out the bias part bc I didn't want to get you all worked up but it happened lol. "How am I bias?" Well, for starters, you compared a part of his game to Mahomes lol. You called him very accurate yet the data clearly contradicts that. Same with his ability to perform under pressure. He does use good touch and has mobility though, you're right there. He can't read defenses to save his life. He regressed from the previous year against a weaker schedule. When he played teams worth a damn, he looked even worse. You claim he's "very solid under pressure" yet data says he was under pressure more this year than last and he was abysmal this year especially compared to last. There's so much more. Feel free to read https://www.pff.com/news/college-buyer-beware-on-utah-state-qb-jordan-love He's just a very average IMO who will get drafted far too high based on his position and the terribleness of this class. Luckily we have a brilliant mind as our GM and he should be smart enough to see this and keep us far, far, far away from him until the end of day 2. I compared contorting his body and throwing accurate lasers to Mahomes. You are really reaching to try to discredit me. No, I did not call him the next Mahomes nor do I think he will be the next Mahomes. Interceptions are solely an accuracy problem....? No, incomplete passes are an accuracy problem. Jordan Love is extremely accurate. Interceptions are usually not understanding defenses correctly. He was fine in 2018 before he got JV level coaches in 2019 calling plays.  Is Love a perfect prospect? No. But he has a Laser Arm, Tremendous Accuracy, Tremendous Understanding of when to use touch and high velocity, solid mobility, and absolutely exceptional pocket presence.  Eason doesn’t come close to Love as a prospect. Not. Even. Close.  Guaranteed Love goes in the 1st and Eason will not. Edited February 13, 2020 by BayRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownLeader Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) On 2/11/2020 at 9:40 PM, BayRaider said: Eason throws non stop fast balls, has little touch ability, panics under pressure, and has below average pocket presence.  Love uses touch extremely well on passes when he needs to, great pocket presence, and he’s mobile.  They are in completely different tiers to me. Love is a project. Eason is a hail marry. This Eason can't throw touch passes thing... is just wrong. Eason's shown he can make any type of throw and he had a bunch of big time touch passes last year. Pocket presence is that of an inexperienced guy, not necessarily a guy that doesn't have it. He showed the ability to step up or manuver inside the pocket to create space to throw every game. I think he's a guy that trusts his mobility too much and ends up taking sacks he shouldn't. That's more a lack of experience/decision making than a guy with a flag for pressure or who can't stand in and throw. Eason reminds me of a bigger Baker Mayfield, minus the big time college production. ...or an intense Jay Cutler. He drops back and absolutely rips throws on target and can make unguardable downfield throws but one reads and doesn't always improvise well. Love also has a good skill set but consistency; mechanically and mentally is lacking. He's a middle class Marcus Mariota imo. But they're both for sure high upside projects. Edited February 13, 2020 by BrownLeader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 8 hours ago, BayRaider said: I compared contorting his body and throwing accurate lasers to Mahomes. You are really reaching to try to discredit me. No, I did not call him the next Mahomes nor do I think he will be the next Mahomes. Interceptions are solely an accuracy problem....? No, incomplete passes are an accuracy problem. Jordan Love is extremely accurate. Interceptions are usually not understanding defenses correctly. He was fine in 2018 before he got JV level coaches in 2019 calling plays.  Is Love a perfect prospect? No. But he has a Laser Arm, Tremendous Accuracy, Tremendous Understanding of when to use touch and high velocity, solid mobility, and absolutely exceptional pocket presence.  Eason doesn’t come close to Love as a prospect. Not. Even. Close.  Guaranteed Love goes in the 1st and Eason will not. This is how you're bias. If you can't read this post and understand that, you need to take a step back. You're excusing all his faults and making false claims. It's ok though, we won't draft him and that's a great thing. Mayock isn't that stupid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 9 hours ago, Awsi Dooger said: That is a fantastic summary. Eason is one of these guys who slobbers on the eye black, trots out there for his next mindless succession of 100 mph fast balls, and somehow thinks that qualifies him as a football player. Jordan Love was pure swagger in 2018. I don't see how anyone can ignore it, and somehow pretend it was a mirage or will never show up again. As I've mentioned, as a Dolphins fan I hope they take Tua with #5 and Love with #18. Maximize opportunity at the most vital position while all the conventional wisdom clods make fools of themselves in derision. Maybe I like Jordan Love so much because he fits everything I look for as a sports bettor. All of my systems rely on long term big picture and not current form. I scoff at current form. In fact, I wager against current form dozens of times every week. My golf matchup systems are designed to take advantage of superior players who have dropped in reputation based on current form, and are now matched up against lesser players who have risen based on short term form. Who cares how good you are playing? The criteria is...how good are you? I absolutely love it when those matchups give me a star player who has recently been playing at C level, and suddenly is matched against a C player who recently has been playing at A level. Lotsa luck to that C player. Quite hilarious how fragile that current form really is. Jordan's Love 2018 is how good he is. Jordan Love's 2019 is how good he is playing. Not exactly a difficult call Lol what did I just read? You want the Dolphins to use both firsts on two QBs? Did you talk about golf? This post is beautiful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Love and Eason are both similar in type: they both will have to be coached up and taught to play the position. The difference is degrees, but it’s a lot. The big problem that I have with Love is that, from what I gather, the closest thing he had to a quality game against a quality opponent was Kent State. Against every quality opponent other than them, he was awful, and they’re still a non power 5 school. Maybe Eason’s best game was against Oregon. He also put together quality games against Washington State, BYU, and (despite the numbers, in my opinion) a pretty good game against Utah. I haven’t watched his tape against Boise State yet, but the numbers are good. Eason shows physical talent, but he also shows enough consistency to string together multiple good games this season. He’s also looked bad in some outings, but he looks much, much closer to someone who can actually play the position. Love hasn’t done this, and even in the Senior Bowl, with tons of talented players around him and not Utah State coaches, he had the same problems. That’s a biiiig concern, and IMO, makes him undraftable to any team without a QB whisperer. That’s why I think Eason is a fringe second rounder while Love is a middle third day guy. One needs a lot of help to succeed in the NFL, and one is going to have to be straight up taught to play the position. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Kent State and their 113th ranked defense. So, what we can conclude here (and Love supporters suggest this), is Love is a huge project that can't do well against MWC defenses, played awful against quality opponents, and can't succeed unless he has good coaching and a good team around him. Does that describe a guy who should be picked in the first? That's ludicrous to suggest that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Nix Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Have this feeling 3 QBs are going in the top 5. 1. Burrow 3. Tua 4. Herbert I’m thinking we could see Love taken around pick 10 with a team like the Chargers trading back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 11 hours ago, johndeere1707 said: Have this feeling 3 QBs are going in the top 5. 1. Burrow 3. Tua 4. Herbert I’m thinking we could see Love taken around pick 10 with a team like the Chargers trading back If the Chargers want Love, they aren’t trading back. One thing that feels certain so far is that no matter who trades up for him, Tua is going at #3; most likely Miami making the move, perhaps LAC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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