SmittyBacall Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, LeotheLion said: The most important thing in talent evals is the Heisman speech. Tells me all I need to know. Don't even get me started on that guy. Burrow's personality and demeanour might be his most alluring feature. He has the classic chip-on-the-shoudler, fiery, uber-competitive attitude that all of the greats possess. But yeah, let's rag on his Heisman speech. Out of all the things to attack him for, he goes with that. Alrighty then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeotheLion Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said: Don't even get me started on that guy. Burrow's personality and demeanour might be his most alluring feature. He has the classic chip-on-the-shoudler, fiery, uber-competitive attitude that all of the greats possess. But yeah, let's rag on his Heisman speech. Out of all the things to attack him for, he goes with that. Alrighty then. Certainly won't go that far but basing an entire eval on a speech is maybe the best thing I've read on these boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 10 hours ago, VanS said: Unlike most I don't get excited by collegiate statistical production. I get excited by the physical traits of the prospects. Its why I had Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson as my top 2 QBs in 2018. Burrow and Tua are not impressive QB prospects in terms of their physical traits. Neither has an elite arm, elite size, or elite athleticism. Let me guess, JaMarcus Russell was the GOAT QB prospect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 9 hours ago, VanS said: We'll see. The great thing about sports is in time we'll know who was right and who wasn't. It only works when you're willing to admit you're wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Let me guess, JaMarcus Russell was the GOAT QB prospect? Russell was a 2nd Round Prospect (so was Brady Quinn) both propelled up in one of the worst QB classes of all time. And then teams just kept mocking Russell to the Raiders at 1 because of “Rocket Arm + Al Davis”, and hey... they were right. Edited March 28, 2020 by BayRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 This guy always has good QB stuff. Also put the “Brady is done” haters in their place recently with great film breakdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 Herbert is that guy that I'm just gonna let someone else take. I'd much rather take Eason or Love late 1st-early 2nd than Herbert top half of the first. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 28 minutes ago, Ragnarok said: Herbert is that guy that I'm just gonna let someone else take. I'd much rather take Eason or Love late 1st-early 2nd than Herbert top half of the first. Wouldn’t be shocked if Eason fell to pick 71. He’s got a rocket arm but he’s a wayyyy bigger project than Jordan Love. People don’t give him as much hate because he’s not a projected 1st Rounder. Draft Eason at 71, and sign Cam. Redshirt Eason and have Cam/Tyrod compete for the starting job. 2021 cut the loser, and have the winner of Cam/Tyrod battle Eason for the starting job (unless in range to draft Lawrence or Fields). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) Swap Herbert and Tua and I agree with his rankings, although that’s not the point. Point is, another former QB defending Jordan Loves INT’s. Do the media guys defend his INT’s? Hit and miss. However, three former NFL QB’s including Chris Simms, Dan Orlovsky, and JT O Sullivan and one former College QB in Daniel Jeremiah defend Loves 2019 INT’s and blame Utah State. Edited March 28, 2020 by BayRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 23 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Swap Herbert and Tua and I agree with his rankings, although that’s not the point. Point is, another former QB defending Jordan Loves INT’s. Do the media guys defend his INT’s? Hit and miss. However, three former NFL QB’s including Chris Simms, Dan Orlovsky, and JT O Sullivan and one former College QB in Daniel Jeremiah defend Loves 2019 INT’s and blame Utah State. While I don't disagree with anything Love related...I don't think you can take what they say as gospel. They're paid to make money. And Love > Herbert and Tua gets clicks which gets money. Plus, not like they have any real ramifications if they are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 DJ also s***ing on Herbert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 1 hour ago, BayRaider said: Swap Herbert and Tua and I agree with his rankings, although that’s not the point. Point is, another former QB defending Jordan Loves INT’s. Do the media guys defend his INT’s? Hit and miss. However, three former NFL QB’s including Chris Simms, Dan Orlovsky, and JT O Sullivan and one former College QB in Daniel Jeremiah defend Loves 2019 INT’s and blame Utah State. I like and respect Orlovsky for his breakdowns. Don't know about him as an evaluator. Chris Simms is a pretty awful evaluator. Not expressing an opinion on Love here. Just wanted the opportunity to call Chris Simms a chowderhead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 1 hour ago, jrry32 said: I like and respect Orlovsky for his breakdowns. Don't know about him as an evaluator. Chris Simms is a pretty awful evaluator. Not expressing an opinion on Love here. Just wanted the opportunity to call Chris Simms a chowderhead. I almost didn’t wanna post the video because he has Tua at 4.... epic facepalm. I’ve seen Tua at 3 on some rankings because of injury concerns, but 4? And he didn’t even list injury as a reason. Many of the comments are stating Lefty Jealousy lol. Tua is a stud QB Prospect, injury or not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 7 hours ago, jrry32 said: No, I'm going by actual reality. Polian has his opinion. But it was nothing approaching the majority opinion at the time, and it only took watching Manning throughout his career to see that he never had a cannon. You simply need a way to rationalize your flawed method of evaluating QBs. If Manning, Brady, and Brees all fail to meet your test, the test can't be valid. So you have to elevate Manning's arm, which at his best was only above average, to a cannon. https://vault.si.com/vault/1999/11/22/thoroughbred-the-colts-peyton-manning-is-more-than-living-up-to-his-pedigree-now-if-he-can-just-figure-out-how-to-open-a-can-of-soup It's not as if Manning has sneaked up on the rest of the NFL. Almost from the time he became a starter during his freshman year at Tennessee, Peyton, the son of former New Orleans Saints standout Archie Manning, was the most eagerly anticipated prospect since Troy Aikman was drafted by Dallas in 1989. Yet Manning, a 6'5" 230-pounder picked first in the '98 draft, has been even better than advertised. In the months before the draft he was repeatedly compared with Ryan Leaf, the cocky, strong-armed quarterback who had led Washington State to its first Rose Bowl appearance in 67 years. Scouts, executives and coaches, most of them speaking anonymously, popped off about Manning's alleged liabilities: unspectacular arm strength, limited mobility, a lesser upside than Leaf. It became fashionable to depict Manning as the safe pick, with Leaf cast as the potential mother lode. Once again you are citing media reports while I cited the word of an evaluator who made an on the record statement. Bill Polian refers to this alleged consensus about Manning's arm being weaker than Leaf in the excerpt. He said it was nothing more than lies fueled by Leaf's agent Leigh Steinberg in the media. If you have on the record statements from NFL people saying Manning had a weak arm coming out then I'm all for it. But as of now all you posted is the same media reports Bill Polian dismissed in his book. And FTR eventhough I never watched Manning in college, I did watch him in his early years on the Colts and I never heard people talk about his arm as a problem. I also never saw any limitations in his game when it came to arm strength. Did he have an arm like Brett Favre or Marino that everyone was in awe of? No. But he was also not some weak arm QB who was getting by on intangibles. He had elite physical tools to go with elite intangibles. And its that combination that made him arguably the greatest QB of all-time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 7 hours ago, SmittyBacall said: I would say this is what most people do, and I've said many times I don't care much at all about production. Stats are a small piece of the pie when evaluating, college or pro. Talent and skill reign supreme - and Burrow is flush with both. I made a thread about this before, but did you see that elite talent in Burrow in 2018? I personally have no problem if you believed Burrow was an elite talent in 2018. My issue has always been with people who watched him in 2018 and saw just another guy but then in 2019 they are saying he's a generational prospect. To me true greatness is readily apparent. I simply don't trust a prospect who as a full-time starter goes from below average one year to all-time great the next year. Progression definitely happens but you also need to flash high-end talent early on. IMO Burrow never flashed elite talent in 2018 and its for that reason alone I am not buying into the 2019 hype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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