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Official 2020 QB Thread


CalhounLambeau

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5 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Let me guess, JaMarcus Russell was the GOAT QB prospect?

No because intangibles matter as well.  FTR I was never high on JaMarcus.  His weight was a big concern to me.  When I see a high level athlete like him who doesn't have the discipline to be in shape then it sends a huge red flag to me about his commitment to the craft.  I was similarly not high on Dwayne Haskins for the same reason.  He wasn't as fat as JaMarcus but he had a soft pudgy body that showed he was dedicated to being at peak physical condition.  I took that as a sign of a poor work ethic.

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1 hour ago, BayRaider said:

I almost didn’t wanna post the video because he has Tua at 4.... epic facepalm. 
 

I’ve seen Tua at 3 on some rankings because of injury concerns, but 4? And he didn’t even list injury as a reason. Many of the comments are stating Lefty Jealousy lol. 
 

Tua is a stud QB Prospect, injury or not. 

Actually I can see why he isn't impressed with Tua.  Even when healthy I was not enamored with him.  He's undersized with a medicre arm at best.  Rarely saw the sort of throws we see every Sunday from NFL QBs from him.  Also he had such elite talent around him that he would throw short 5 yard passes that would go 80 yards.

I never saw the hype with Tua.  His injury history only makes taking him in the 1st round even more ridiculous.

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2 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Chris Simms is a pretty awful evaluator.

His track record on QBs in the draft is pretty amazing in the last few years.  In 2016 he had Carson Wentz rated above Jared Goff as the top QB in the draft.  Not that radical but he gets credit for being right.  In 2017 he had Patrick Mahomes rated as the top QB and was showering him with what looked at the time as over the top praise that has now become prophetic.  And finally in 2018 he had Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen rated as the top QBs in the draft ahead of Sam Darnold who everyone else loved.  In fact at the time he was most critical of Darnold and Rosen while most of the rest of the media were saying they were the best QBs in the draft.

When it comes to QBs in the NFL Draft Chris Simms has been arguably the best evalutor in the media.  I don't know many media heads that had Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen rated as the top 2 QBs in 2018 or were calling Patrick Mahomes the second coming of Aaron Rodgers ahead of the 2017 draft.

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33 minutes ago, VanS said:

My issue has always been with people who watched him in 2018 and saw just another guy but then in 2019 they are saying he's a generational prospect.  To me true greatness is readily apparent.  

 

9 hours ago, VanS said:

Actually no.  I have changed my tune on players that I've mis-evaluated several times.  For example, I was not that high on Courtland Sutton coming out.  I thought he would be a bust.  Now I view him as the best young WR in the NFL who will be a superstar for many years to come.   And I pretty much knew I was wrong on that after I watched him in his first preseason game as a rookie. 

So you take issue with Burrow fast-passing his progress as a QB in one year, but think Sutton can go from bust to best young WR in the league in less than a single offseason?

 

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7 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

but think Sutton can go from bust to best young WR in the league in less than a single offseason?

From bust to superstar after a couple of snaps of a pre-season game... But if Burrow has a good rookie season it doesn't mean anything! 
 

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7 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

So you take issue with Burrow fast-passing his progress as a QB in one year, but think Sutton can go from bust to best young WR in the league in less than a single offseason?

 

Never said I was infallible when it comes to projecting players from college to the pros.  I can be wrong and when I am I say so.  However, in general that rule holds true.  All-time greatness is typically readily apparent.  Now when a player is young he'll be inconsistent.  But the flashes will be there.  If a guy never flashes until he's a 23 year old redshirt senior then I take that as a red flag.

Edited by VanS
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17 minutes ago, MagicMT said:

From bust to superstar after a couple of snaps of a pre-season game... But if Burrow has a good rookie season it doesn't mean anything! 
 

I look more at how a player looks and moves physically on the field than the end result production when judging overall talent level.  For example, how big does he look? I know this is weird to say but sometimes players look smaller or bigger when they make the jump from college to the NFL.  I also look at how smooth the player moves.  Typically the best athletes make what they do look effortless.  I also look for things like how explosive does the guy look compared to others on the field as well as how good his body control is.  The best players just look and move different than their peers.  To me things like this are readily apparent from the first preseason game.

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9 hours ago, VanS said:

No because intangibles matter as well.  FTR I was never high on JaMarcus.  His weight was a big concern to me.  When I see a high level athlete like him who doesn't have the discipline to be in shape then it sends a huge red flag to me about his commitment to the craft.  I was similarly not high on Dwayne Haskins for the same reason.  He wasn't as fat as JaMarcus but he had a soft pudgy body that showed he was dedicated to being at peak physical condition.  I took that as a sign of a poor work ethic.

So...now you take intangible into account?  You said you evaluate traits, i.e. elite arm (which Russell had) and elite size (which Russell had).

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52 minutes ago, VanS said:

Never said I was infallible when it comes to projecting players from college to the pros.  I can be wrong and when I am I say so.  However, in general that rule holds true.  All-time greatness is typically readily apparent.  Now when a player is young he'll be inconsistent.  But the flashes will be there.  If a guy never flashes until he's a 23 year old redshirt senior then I take that as a red flag.

So again - you are okay with labeling a guy a bust, but then saying he’s actually a future superstar in less than an offseason, after a single preseason game - but also believe it’s a red flag if a similar jump is made from one season to another in college?

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9 hours ago, VanS said:

And FTR eventhough I never watched Manning in college, I did watch him in his early years on the Colts and I never heard people talk about his arm as a problem.  I also never saw any limitations in his game when it came to arm strength.  Did he have an arm like Brett Favre or Marino that everyone was in awe of?  No.  But he was also not some weak arm QB who was getting by on intangibles.  He had elite physical tools to go with elite intangibles. 

This is so contradictory. In one sentence you're claiming his arm was adequate and had no limitations, and the next he had elite physical tools. And the only "physical tools" you must be referring to is his arm (because he obviously didn't have the athleticism or mobility). So which one is it? How were his tools elite if he didn't have elite arm strength? Aside from his size, what other tool was elite?

By the way, you know who else has an adequate arm without limitations? Smokin' Joe, that's who.

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13 hours ago, VanS said:

His track record on QBs in the draft is pretty amazing in the last few years.  In 2016 he had Carson Wentz rated above Jared Goff as the top QB in the draft.  Not that radical but he gets credit for being right.  In 2017 he had Patrick Mahomes rated as the top QB and was showering him with what looked at the time as over the top praise that has now become prophetic.  And finally in 2018 he had Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen rated as the top QBs in the draft ahead of Sam Darnold who everyone else loved.  In fact at the time he was most critical of Darnold and Rosen while most of the rest of the media were saying they were the best QBs in the draft.

When it comes to QBs in the NFL Draft Chris Simms has been arguably the best evalutor in the media.  I don't know many media heads that had Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen rated as the top 2 QBs in 2018 or were calling Patrick Mahomes the second coming of Aaron Rodgers ahead of the 2017 draft.

Ha! xD

13 hours ago, VanS said:

Actually I can see why he isn't impressed with Tua.  Even when healthy I was not enamored with him.  He's undersized with a medicre arm at best.  Rarely saw the sort of throws we see every Sunday from NFL QBs from him.  Also he had such elite talent around him that he would throw short 5 yard passes that would go 80 yards.

I never saw the hype with Tua.  His injury history only makes taking him in the 1st round even more ridiculous.

Tua has a mediocre arm? Have you actually watched him play?

14 hours ago, VanS said:

And FTR eventhough I never watched Manning in college, I did watch him in his early years on the Colts and I never heard people talk about his arm as a problem.  I also never saw any limitations in his game when it came to arm strength.  Did he have an arm like Brett Favre or Marino that everyone was in awe of?  No.  But he was also not some weak arm QB who was getting by on intangibles.  He had elite physical tools to go with elite intangibles.  And its that combination that made him arguably the greatest QB of all-time.

LOL. Did you seriously just backpedal and agree with me? You called his arm a cannon earlier. That was not true. I said his arm strength at his peak was above average. You're now agreeing with that. But what that also means is that Manning fails your traits test.

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15 hours ago, VanS said:

I made a thread about this before, but did you see that elite talent in Burrow in 2018?

You’re conflating talent and skill again.

To answer your question, yes - the flashes were there. He demonstrated the anticipation, accuracy, ball placement, instincts, mobility, etc that we saw during his 2019 campaign. He just wasn’t able to flourish in the same capacity in 2018 for reasons I’ve explained ad nauseam. 

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14 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

You’re conflating talent and skill again.

To answer your question, yes - the flashes were there. He demonstrated the anticipation, accuracy, ball placement, instincts, mobility, etc that we saw during his 2019 campaign. He just wasn’t able to flourish in the same capacity in 2018 for reasons I’ve explained ad nauseam. 

Nah dude, Burrow being forced into an offensive system even dinosaurs would consider outdated had no impact.

Edited by Breesus mode
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