Oregon Ducks Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 17 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: I told ya'll Herbert's accuracy is usually not the issue. Homie is just bad under pressure and he didn't dominate like he should have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 49 minutes ago, jrry32 said: I don't trust Klassen. Why? His numbers of Love certainly contradict what his biggest fan says about him on here. That's for damn sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 34 minutes ago, Oregon Ducks said: I told ya'll Herbert's accuracy is usually not the issue. Homie is just bad under pressure and he didn't dominate like he should have. Herbert is the oddest QB of this draft. I want to think he'll be a great pro like I did a year ago but after watching him this past season, especially late in the season, it doesn't make sense to suggest he would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoDucks823 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 25 minutes ago, JTagg7754 said: Herbert is the oddest QB of this draft. I want to think he'll be a great pro like I did a year ago but after watching him this past season, especially late in the season, it doesn't make sense to suggest he would. He's definitely frustrating a lot fo the time (especially late this season - see ASU game and his INT in the rose bowl), but he probably has the worst set of weapons of any solid QB in this class outside of Love (who I don't see as solid). Still, without guys open/ that he can trust to catch the ball, he rarely (really only did this against ASU) put his team in a worse position. He's a bit too cautious, but that happens when you know you can't trust your guys. I've probably come across as a Herbert homer with some of my posts recently, but I definitely see the flaws. That being said, I would take him over Tua due to the injury concerns (I also have concerns about him constantly being surrounded by elite WR talent, but without the injury issues he's clearly above Herbert). I wouldn't touch Tua in the first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 On 3/27/2020 at 9:28 PM, BayRaider said: Russell was a 2nd Round Prospect (so was Brady Quinn) both propelled up in one of the worst QB classes of all time. And then teams just kept mocking Russell to the Raiders at 1 because of “Rocket Arm + Al Davis”, and hey... they were right. Man what a crazy draft that was. There may have been 6 Hall of Fame worthy players in the first 15 picks of that draft with Calvin Johnson, Joe Thomas, Adrian Peterson, Patrick Willis, Marshawn Lynch, and Darelle Revis. Guys like Calvin Johnson, Patrick Willis, and Adrian Peterson are probably among the all-time most freakish athletes ever at their respective positions. Then on top of that were several other Pro Bowl level players in the 1st round I believe 17 Pro Bowl players in the 1st round if I'm not mistaken. Yet despite all that, there wasn't a decent QB in the whole draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, ScoDucks823 said: He's definitely frustrating a lot fo the time (especially late this season - see ASU game and his INT in the rose bowl), but he probably has the worst set of weapons of any solid QB in this class outside of Love (who I don't see as solid). Still, without guys open/ that he can trust to catch the ball, he rarely (really only did this against ASU) put his team in a worse position. He's a bit too cautious, but that happens when you know you can't trust your guys. I've probably come across as a Herbert homer with some of my posts recently, but I definitely see the flaws. That being said, I would take him over Tua due to the injury concerns (I also have concerns about him constantly being surrounded by elite WR talent, but without the injury issues he's clearly above Herbert). I wouldn't touch Tua in the first He did have arguably the best OL in all of college football though. I won't deny his weapons weren't top notch but that doesn't negate the way he looked in some of those games. He is probably my 2nd QB but only b/c of Tua's injury concerns and b/c this QB class kinda sucks. Love's lack of weapons don't matter when he's throwing it directly at defenders also lol. That's 100% on him. He's awful IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoDucks823 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, JTagg7754 said: He did have arguably the best OL in all of college football though. I won't deny his weapons weren't top notch but that doesn't negate the way he looked in some of those games. He is probably my 2nd QB but only b/c of Tua's injury concerns and b/c this QB class kinda sucks. Love's lack of weapons don't matter when he's throwing it directly at defenders also lol. That's 100% on him. He's awful IMO Agreed 100%, but I think this year (for the most part) he actually improved a lot under pressure. He was a lot more confident sticking in there and still making the throw with a guy in his face. I see Love the exact same way, but listen to the BR guys and they'll act like Love is flawless and Herbert is the one who threw all the INTs which is completely laughable since protecting the ball is one of his best traits (minus the ASU game which was more of an aberration, but you can't ignore it) This breakdown by JT O'Sullivan is great: Edited April 1, 2020 by ScoDucks823 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awsi Dooger Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 In looking at the spreadsheet and all the categories broken down, you can see why a Washington State quarterback is difficult to evaluate. It doesn't resemble an NFL environment at all. Every snap from the shotgun. Virtually no play action. Extremely high percentage of passes within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage. Virtually nothing 16 yards or more downfield. And more than anything, the way opponents choose to defend that type of offense. Anthony Gordon faced prevent as a rule, for the simple reason that opponents knew they didn't have to worry about any running game and also didn't have to worry about downfield throws. It was striking that Tua faces a completely different type of defensive strategy than Gordon. Alabama opponents almost never play prevent. They send 5+ rushers a comparatively high percentage of the time. The prevent percentages and pressure percentages for Tua and Gordon were flopped. So with Tua the question would be the opposite of question's posed to Gordon: What happens if Tua is now facing prevent defenses dropping back to cover as opposed to intent on pressuring hm? Likely some struggles and necessary adjustments on his part because it's obvious from the numbers he almost never has faced that type of thing. Only 15 games studied for Jordan Love. I'd say that more lazy than it needed to be. It probably means not much from 2018. As I've mentioned I didn't care about Love's 2019 at all and only watched the Air Force game because it was so overwhelmingly obvious beforehand what type of decline that program and offense would have. It was even more blatant than all the personnel losses Josh Allen faced his senior season. Anyone who inherited Jordan Love within 2019 alone is missing the big picture, IMO. Jordan Love is a gamble on greatness. If you hit it's huge and if you don't you'll know it within 2 years or perhaps portions into the third. Then you go elsewhere. He will be anything but a Ryan Tannehill perennial tease. If anything I thought the Jacob Eason numbers were most troubling of all. That's a joke accuracy percentage under pressure. But no big mystery why it would unfold that way. Not only does Eason panic but he also has no touch whatsoever to bail him out when he is pressured. Some guys can sense the need for a rainbow into space, allowing the receiver to adjust and make the play. That never occurs to Eason because he doesn't have it in his arsenal. It is one mindless line drive after another. The obscenely high drop rate for Eason at nearly 6% is also not surprising given that 100 mph dependency. Note the vast gap in how Eason fares when pressured compared to his play action accuracy, which is excellent. Jacob Eason is the guy you need to protect with a strong offensive line and lots of play action, then hope he matures and relaxes to the point he develops some confidence and change of pace while under duress. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 3 hours ago, JTagg7754 said: Why? His numbers of Love certainly contradict what his biggest fan says about him on here. That's for damn sure. His evaluations have been god awful for years. There's an element of subjectivity in that sort of charting, and I don't trust him to make those calls accurately. I don't have a high opinion of his understanding of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 29 minutes ago, jrry32 said: His evaluations have been god awful for years. There's an element of subjectivity in that sort of charting, and I don't trust him to make those calls accurately. I don't have a high opinion of his understanding of the game. Right on. I don't feel you need to have a high understanding of the game to tell whether a pass is accurate or not but you're absolutely right there's subjectivity to it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 1 minute ago, JTagg7754 said: Right on. I don't feel you need to have a high understanding of the game to tell whether a pass is accurate or not but you're absolutely right there's subjectivity to it. You're right. That pertains more to my dislike of him lol. I'd say confirmation bias is more what concerns me with him. He's the sort of guy who would (likely not even consciously) skew things a bit in favor of the guys he likes and against the guys he doesn't. JMO. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Ducks Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 9 hours ago, JTagg7754 said: Herbert is the oddest QB of this draft. I want to think he'll be a great pro like I did a year ago but after watching him this past season, especially late in the season, it doesn't make sense to suggest he would. He’s been like that his entire career. I don’t get him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 (edited) Herbert just screams that guy in the NFL who will show flashes, but will be a slightly-below average QB in the 18-23 range, and eventually not get his contract renewed. Winston/Mariota come to mind. I’d rather totally gamble on a guy like Jordan Love who won’t keep your franchise guessing for 5 years. By the end of year two, you’ll know if he’s a Top 10 QB or your Classic 1st Round QB Total-Bust like Gabbert, Manziel, Locker, etc. There’s no middle ground with Love. It’s Top 7-8 QB or total bust. What actually may be a better deal than both of those guys is getting Jalen Hurts in the Late 2nd/Early 3rd. There’s definitely a chance he could develop into a Franchise QB. Even if he didn’t, you spent a Late 2nd/Early 3rd on a great gadget like Taysom Hill and a Top-Tier Backup QB. You can’t lose with Jalen either way. Win-win situation for where he’s projected to go. Edited April 2, 2020 by BayRaider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboRocket Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 16 hours ago, ScoDucks823 said: He's definitely frustrating a lot fo the time (especially late this season - see ASU game and his INT in the rose bowl), but he probably has the worst set of weapons of any solid QB in this class outside of Love (who I don't see as solid). Still, without guys open/ that he can trust to catch the ball, he rarely (really only did this against ASU) put his team in a worse position. He's a bit too cautious, but that happens when you know you can't trust your guys. I've probably come across as a Herbert homer with some of my posts recently, but I definitely see the flaws. That being said, I would take him over Tua due to the injury concerns (I also have concerns about him constantly being surrounded by elite WR talent, but without the injury issues he's clearly above Herbert). I wouldn't touch Tua in the first Eason's supporting cast < Herbert's. I could rank them all, if you guys would like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoDucks823 Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 7 hours ago, HoboRocket said: Eason's supporting cast < Herbert's. I could rank them all, if you guys would like. Where we disagree then is that I don't have Eason as a solid prospect. He's a big time gamble. Fastball only guy (idk where the narrative that this describes Herbert came from, he made a living on touch passes to seam routes when Breeland was available) who completely crumbles if any pressure comes in (even if it's just perceived pressure). One thing I think isn't talked enough about with Herbert is that he's never really had a great QB coach, and also wasn't a guy that was going to camps/ private QB coaches all through high school. He may be a senior and 4 year starter but he has a lot of room to grow with more coaching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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