Official 2020 QB Thread

[animaltested]

Got a hunch that if Eason has a solid game against BSU in Las Vegas, he is going to declare. Petersons gone, 2 offensive linemen and his top three targets moving on. 

[SmittyBacall]

7 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Burrow has been amazing this season, no question about that.  But hard to not be better than Tua this year, especially late in the season when he basically cannot even walk.  That injury history is a huge deal though and will be come draft time.

Burrow has never went into a season where the expectation is basically win every game you play, throw 3-4 TDs a game and beat every team by 20 or more points per game.  Those are the expectations Tua has had especially as a SOPH and now as a JR.  Will see how Burrow lives up to those expectations later on this season and onto the NFL, because they will be crazy high.  

Just look at Dwayne Haskins this year at the next level, to some he could not do anything wrong in college last year.  Tons of people liked him and thought he was such a pure natural passer, well does not look quite like that when he is on a team that does not even have as good of receivers as he did in college much less a decent passing game system either.  Has looked more than average and that could happen with Burrow or any QB really put in the wrong situation.  Burrow is more athletic and arguably more prepared for the NFL than Haskins so he does have that going. But that bad situation could be the Bengals with a bad OL, best receiver in AJ Green probably gone and a some what weak defensive unit and overall roster.

 

Is hard to find a QB in the last 10 years or so playing as well as Burrow has this season, without a down year because of the situation and coming on late in his career.  There is no recent period of being slightly down like most QBs have had after a great FR or SOPH season.  Just look at Baker and the expectations put on him after a good rookie year though, hard to live up to those especially as a QB.  

I'm not sure I get your point. You're worried Joe will crack under the pressure and not live up to his play/production at LSU? No reasonable fan is expecting him to come in here and be the savior overnight. 

I don't think Haskins is struggling because of pressure, I think he's struggling because, first of all, he's a rookie; and rookies inherently struggle. And secondly, his tools don't translate that well to the NFL. I also don't think he and Burrow are very comparable as prospects. Both have a differing set of skills. 

Could Burrow bust from the pressure, or being thrown to the wolves on a bad team? Maybe? But if you're Cincinnati that's not a reason to not draft him. I actually (surprise, surprise) think Burrow's game translates well to playing behind a bad line. His pocket awareness is as good as it gets, really. And the players around him won't be that bad. Green, Eifert, Boyd, Ross, Tate, Mixon and Gio are a pretty solid set of weapons offensively.

[Ozzy]

1 hour ago, SmittyBacall said:

I'm not sure I get your point. You're worried Joe will crack under the pressure and not live up to his play/production at LSU? No reasonable fan is expecting him to come in here and be the savior overnight. 

I don't think Haskins is struggling because of pressure, I think he's struggling because, first of all, he's a rookie; and rookies inherently struggle. And secondly, his tools don't translate that well to the NFL. I also don't think he and Burrow are very comparable as prospects. Both have a differing set of skills. 

Could Burrow bust from the pressure, or being thrown to the wolves on a bad team? Maybe? But if you're Cincinnati that's not a reason to not draft him. I actually (surprise, surprise) think Burrow's game translates well to playing behind a bad line. His pocket awareness is as good as it gets, really. And the players around him won't be that bad. Green, Eifert, Boyd, Ross, Tate, Mixon and Gio are a pretty solid set of weapons offensively.

My point is expectations can change how a player performs.  Joe Burrow's expectations coming into this season was what?  Just be ok as a starter and end up being a mid to late round draft pick with a decent season?  Anyone have any higher expectations of him than that?  Similar to Kyler Murray last year at OU, his expectations were, oh at least he is our starter but he is going to play baseball next season so no NFL pressure, but enjoys the college game in his final year playing football, then ended up balling out all season and being drafted #1 overall.  Sadly it was into a system with an inexperienced and unqualified head coach.  

 

Things change when expectations change and the hype Burrow is getting, next Tom Brady type hype.  Good luck with freaking that one.  

But of course any Bengal fan has hope and why not, but honestly if you or anyone else thinks he is going to completely change that franchise 360 degrees?  That you will win Super Bowls like Tom Brady and the Patriots have done, well I doubt it but will see. So what the Bengals cut Andy Dalton?  If not then what do they do with Ryan Finley?  Zac Taylor is not a great coach I feel which does not help and honestly in terms of prospects, Chase Young will be the better player long term compared to Joe Burrow.  Could also argue Chase Young is a more rare talent in general regardless of position.

 

Heck if they do go Burrow #1 overall, how much you want to bet they hire Joe Brady as the OC?  

 

3 hours ago, animaltested said:

Got a hunch that if Eason has a solid game against BSU in Las Vegas, he is going to declare. Petersons gone, 2 offensive linemen and his top three targets moving on. 

Yeah I would be shocked if he does not declare, but depends on how much he likes playing for his home state team and if he wants to accomplish more as a team at that level or not.  

[SmittyBacall]

20 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

My point is expectations can change how a player performs.  Joe Burrow's expectations coming into this season was what?  Just be ok as a starter and end up being a mid to late round draft pick with a decent season?  Anyone have any higher expectations of him than that?  Similar to Kyler Murray last year at OU, his expectations were, oh at least he is our starter but he is going to play baseball next season so no NFL pressure, but enjoys the college game in his final year playing football, then ended up balling out all season and being drafted #1 overall.  Sadly it was into a system with an inexperienced and unqualified head coach.  

 

Things change when expectations change and the hype Burrow is getting, next Tom Brady type hype.  Good luck with freaking that one.  

But of course any Bengal fan has hope and why not, but honestly if you or anyone else thinks he is going to completely change that franchise 360 degrees?  That you will win Super Bowls like Tom Brady and the Patriots have done, well I doubt it but will see. So what the Bengals cut Andy Dalton?  If not then what do they do with Ryan Finley?  Zac Taylor is not a great coach I feel which does not help and honestly in terms of prospects, Chase Young will be the better player long term compared to Joe Burrow.  Could also argue Chase Young is a more rare talent in general regardless of position.

 

Heck if they do go Burrow #1 overall, how much you want to bet they hire Joe Brady as the OC?  

 

Yeah I would be shocked if he does not declare, but depends on how much he likes playing for his home state team and if he wants to accomplish more as a team at that level or not.  

Eh, I don’t buy all that pressure and expectation talk. You either have it or you don’t. 

[jrry32]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

My point is expectations can change how a player performs.  Joe Burrow's expectations coming into this season was what?  Just be ok as a starter and end up being a mid to late round draft pick with a decent season?  Anyone have any higher expectations of him than that?  Similar to Kyler Murray last year at OU, his expectations were, oh at least he is our starter but he is going to play baseball next season so no NFL pressure, but enjoys the college game in his final year playing football, then ended up balling out all season and being drafted #1 overall.  Sadly it was into a system with an inexperienced and unqualified head coach.  

 

Things change when expectations change and the hype Burrow is getting, next Tom Brady type hype.  Good luck with freaking that one.  

But of course any Bengal fan has hope and why not, but honestly if you or anyone else thinks he is going to completely change that franchise 360 degrees?  That you will win Super Bowls like Tom Brady and the Patriots have done, well I doubt it but will see. So what the Bengals cut Andy Dalton?  If not then what do they do with Ryan Finley?  Zac Taylor is not a great coach I feel which does not help and honestly in terms of prospects, Chase Young will be the better player long term compared to Joe Burrow.  Could also argue Chase Young is a more rare talent in general regardless of position.

 

Heck if they do go Burrow #1 overall, how much you want to bet they hire Joe Brady as the OC?  

 

Yeah I would be shocked if he does not declare, but depends on how much he likes playing for his home state team and if he wants to accomplish more as a team at that level or not.  

It would be quite smart for Taylor to do that. 

[Ozzy]

1 hour ago, SmittyBacall said:

Eh, I don’t buy all that pressure and expectation talk. You either have it or you don’t. 

Really?  Michael Vick for example take the expectations of him on Atlanta compared to Lamar Jackson on the Ravens.  Vick was the absolute savoir of the franchise and one of the most hyped prospect ever to enter the NFL in history.  Lamar, great athlete but no one really knew how he would translate and if he did not translate they did not spend a super high 1st round pick on him anyway.  Two greatly different expectation levels right there.  After Lamar's rookie year people just seem happy if he just completes a few passes every now and again, well he has went far beyond that obviously.

Carson Palmer was out at Cincinnati because of the expectations for him, a great QB and one of the best QB prospects in the past 20 years.  Did not win, just like Andy Dalton on Cincinnati.  What, Palmer did not succeed because he did not have "it"?  I do not believe that one bit.  A lot is the situation the player is put in and the talent around them.

 

QBs in the NFL that do not win get massacred constantly in the media.  Will be interesting how Burrow handles that after in college this season he literally can almost do nothing wrong. 

 

 

Look at the difference between his JR and SR season stats and his SR season is not even done yet.  If in potentially two playoff games he might end up having more completions this season as he had attempts the previous season, not to mention having over 2000 more yards passing and more than triple the TDs.  That is crazy impressive no question about it.  But if the result of that is an expectation of being the next Tom Brady, then yes Joe Burrow you will be a failure in the NFL.

*2018	LSU	SEC	JR	QB	13	219	379	57.8	2894	7.6	7.9	16	5	133.2
2019	LSU	SEC	SR	QB	13	342	439	77.9	4715	10.7	12.3	48	6	201.5

 

 

Players that I can recall at QB who have just blew up at QB kind of out of nowhere would be Ryan Tannehill who was obviously a converted WR and was just a part time starter one year then full time the next.  Cam Newton who did succeed at JUCO before his one year of Auburn greatness and Mitchell Trubisky who had stints as a backup at times but only one year as a full time starter.  At least Burrow has had two years of being a full time starter which is nice but still the improvement of him from JR to SR year is insane.  I do not believe it has been done to this degree before, coming from a full time starter one year to the next having this big of a improvement.

It will be very interesting watching him in the Playoff after he wins the Heisman trophy no doubt.  But like I said with Tua, he has been through it all, the ups and the downs along with the high expectations.  Burrow is on a crazy high up right now, but it will come back down just a matter of when.  

[SmittyBacall]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

Really?  Michael Vick for example take the expectations of him on Atlanta compared to Lamar Jackson on the Ravens.  Vick was the absolute savoir of the franchise and one of the most hyped prospect ever to enter the NFL in history.  Lamar, great athlete but no one really knew how he would translate and if he did not translate they did not spend a super high 1st round pick on him anyway.  Two greatly different expectation levels right there.  After Lamar's rookie year people just seem happy if he just completes a few passes every now and again, well he has went far beyond that obviously.

Carson Palmer was out at Cincinnati because of the expectations for him, a great QB and one of the best QB prospects in the past 20 years.  Did not win, just like Andy Dalton on Cincinnati.  What, Palmer did not succeed because he did not have "it"?  I do not believe that one bit.  A lot is the situation the player is put in and the talent around them.

 

QBs in the NFL that do not win get massacred constantly in the media.  Will be interesting how Burrow handles that after in college this season he literally can almost do nothing wrong. 

 

 

Look at the difference between his JR and SR season stats and his SR season is not even done yet.  If in potentially two playoff games he might end up having more completions this season as he had attempts the previous season, not to mention having over 2000 more yards passing and more than triple the TDs.  That is crazy impressive no question about it.  But if the result of that is an expectation of being the next Tom Brady, then yes Joe Burrow you will be a failure in the NFL.

*2018	LSU	SEC	JR	QB	13	219	379	57.8	2894	7.6	7.9	16	5	133.2
2019	LSU	SEC	SR	QB	13	342	439	77.9	4715	10.7	12.3	48	6	201.5

 

 

Players that I can recall at QB who have just blew up at QB kind of out of nowhere would be Ryan Tannehill who was obviously a converted WR and was just a part time starter one year then full time the next.  Cam Newton who did succeed at JUCO before his one year of Auburn greatness and Mitchell Trubisky who had stints as a backup at times but only one year as a full time starter.  At least Burrow has had two years of being a full time starter which is nice but still the improvement of him from JR to SR year is insane.  I do not believe it has been done to this degree before, coming from a full time starter one year to the next having this big of a improvement.

It will be very interesting watching him in the Playoff after he wins the Heisman trophy no doubt.  But like I said with Tua, he has been through it all, the ups and the downs along with the high expectations.  Burrow is on a crazy high up right now, but it will come back down just a matter of when.  

I still don’t really see the point in all this. I’m really trying, it’s a lot to follow. 

One thing I will say, you keep dropping Brady’s name like people are directly comparing Burrow to him. They’re not. The comparison comes from the similarities between Brady’s style in the pocket, and his stature; maybe poise too. That’s pretty much it. I think he looks more like Romo than Brady.

And no, Palmer didn’t leave Cincinnati because of pressure or expectations. He left because he was sick of our inept ownership.

Edited December 14, 2019 by SmittyBacall
Spelling errors and wording.

[jrry32]

3 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

I still don’t really see the point in all this. I’m really trying, it’s a lot to follow. 

One thing I will say, you keep dropping Brady’s name like people are directly comparing Burrow to him. They’re not. The comparison comes from similarities Brady’s style in the pocket and stature. Maybe poise. That’s pretty much it. I think be looks more like Romo than Brady.
 

And no, Palmer didn’t leave Cincinnati because of pressure or expectations. He left because he was sick of our inept ownership.

Romo is a good comp.

[SmittyBacall]

1 hour ago, jrry32 said:

Romo is a good comp.

Loved Romo. Super fun guy to watch.

[Ozzy]

1 hour ago, SmittyBacall said:

I still don’t really see the point in all this. I’m really trying, it’s a lot to follow. 

One thing I will say, you keep dropping Brady’s name like people are directly comparing Burrow to him. They’re not. The comparison comes from similarities Brady’s style in the pocket and stature. Maybe poise. That’s pretty much it. I think be looks more like Romo than Brady.
 

And no, Palmer didn’t leave Cincinnati because of pressure or expectations. He left because he was sick of our inept ownership.

I know you want Joe Burrow to birth all of your children if he could, but simply put the guy is going to come down off of this crazy high he is on.  Chase Young will be a better pro and honestly is the better selection long term at #1. 

Wish LSU would have got the 2nd seed and they should have, then he would have went up against Clemson and if they even beat them, which is a huge if then he would of had to go up against Ohio State also most likely.  Would have been much better defensive competition for Burrow than OU which is a total wash and has no DBs who will even make it to the NFL, well maybe Motley but that is about it.  

I have heard the Tom Brady comparisons around here and more importantly in the media more than once.  Why?  Because he wins, is confident and has a swagger about him similar to Tom Brady the past 10 years or so.  People love that confident and bravado, who would not?  Thus if that is the bar, he has already failed and he is not even in the league yet which might be an issues going forward if that is the expectation.  

 

Tony Romo?  How about Matt Ryan, that makes more sense to me.  Romo is a quicker athlete than Joe Burrow is and does not have as good of a arm either, oh and the expectation level are nothing even close to the same to start a career.  Personality wise they are different as well, no way Burrow is sitting in a booth as an announcer after his pro career.  In terms of how they play Carson Wentz might be a good comparison as well, not quite as large but similar in their athletic ability and arm talent.  

 

How much of his success has to do with Joe Brady?  That is a massive question mark in my book.  He could have just got teamed with an up and coming football offensive mind that put pro concepts into a college offense and few college level defenses can handle it or have seen it before to this level.  With Burrow being able to focus on only football almost full time this year as a grad student with a cake schedule apparently.  To run a slant and change it instantly to a corner route the opposite direction, few defenses can handle that or expect it especially at the college level.  They did it against Georgia more than once and Georgia has one of the better secondaries in the nation and are coached very well.

 

To Burrow's credit that LSU OL has been pretty crap especially at OT so at least he can handle being pressured and or hit.  Is a little too tough for his own good though and should not take as many shots as he does being the tough guy, but his teammates love it I am sure and he is a great leader.  Time to sit back and enjoy the show, it is historic in terms of the reality of how improved he is, no one has ever done that which I can remember and usually that is not always a good thing.      

[SmittyBacall]

29 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

In terms of how they play Carson Wentz might be a good comparison as well, not quite as large but similar in their athletic ability and arm talent.

This tells me all I need to know.

Good night, sir.

[jrry32]

5 hours ago, Ozzy said:

I know you want Joe Burrow to birth all of your children if he could, but simply put the guy is going to come down off of this crazy high he is on.  Chase Young will be a better pro and honestly is the better selection long term at #1.    

Bad opinion #1. You don't take a DE over a potential franchise QB.

Quote

Wish LSU would have got the 2nd seed and they should have, then he would have went up against Clemson and if they even beat them, which is a huge if then he would of had to go up against Ohio State also most likely.  Would have been much better defensive competition for Burrow than OU which is a total wash and has no DBs who will even make it to the NFL, well maybe Motley but that is about it.

Bad opinion #2. LSU earned the #1 seed.  

Quote

Tony Romo?  How about Matt Ryan, that makes more sense to me.  Romo is a quicker athlete than Joe Burrow is and does not have as good of a arm either, oh and the expectation level are nothing even close to the same to start a career.  Personality wise they are different as well, no way Burrow is sitting in a booth as an announcer after his pro career.  In terms of how they play Carson Wentz might be a good comparison as well, not quite as large but similar in their athletic ability and arm talent.

Bad opinion #3. Burrow is far more athletic than Matt Ryan. And Carson Wentz has better arm talent than both Burrow and Romo.   

Quote

How much of his success has to do with Joe Brady?  That is a massive question mark in my book.  He could have just got teamed with an up and coming football offensive mind that put pro concepts into a college offense and few college level defenses can handle it or have seen it before to this level.  With Burrow being able to focus on only football almost full time this year as a grad student with a cake schedule apparently.  To run a slant and change it instantly to a corner route the opposite direction, few defenses can handle that or expect it especially at the college level.  They did it against Georgia more than once and Georgia has one of the better secondaries in the nation and are coached very well.

What? You think college defenses don't routinely face pro concepts or offenses changing routes/plays at the LOS? C'mon. If anything, you're making the argument that Burrow is mentally superior to other college QBs.

[SmittyBacall]

4 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Bad opinion #1. You don't take a DE over a potential franchise QB.

Bad opinion #2. LSU earned the #1 seed.  

Bad opinion #3. Burrow is far more athletic than Matt Ryan. And Carson Wentz has better arm talent than both Burrow and Romo.   

What? You think college defenses don't routinely face pro concepts or offenses changing routes/plays at the LOS? C'mon. If anything, you're making the argument that Burrow is mentally superior to other college QBs.

Thank you. It was just too much to unpack and I really didn’t want to get into it. 😂 

Edited December 14, 2019 by SmittyBacall

[Ozzy]

6 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Bad opinion #1. You don't take a DE over a potential franchise QB.

Bad opinion #2. LSU earned the #1 seed.  

Bad opinion #3. Burrow is far more athletic than Matt Ryan. And Carson Wentz has better arm talent than both Burrow and Romo.   

What? You think college defenses don't routinely face pro concepts or offenses changing routes/plays at the LOS? C'mon. If anything, you're making the argument that Burrow is mentally superior to other college QBs.

Name me the college offense in college that runs a quick slant that breaks at 10-15 yards and turns into post or a corner route going the opposite direction?  Burrow is not only the one benefiting from this offensive system, Chase obviously won the Biletnikoff award as well and they have two of the top 10 receivers in terms of statistics all season, Chase had only 313 yards receiving last year. Not to mention Edwards-Helaire and his success as a pass catcher when before this year that was not really part of his game or Moss who accomplished almost nothing on the field in terms of production and now is a pretty legit weapon out there.  Sure college teams use pro concepts, but not to this degree usually.  SEC teams or any team in general simply did not now how to deal with it, clearly even the NFL struggles with it and the Saints, is that just because all these LSU players are so great?  Maybe, maybe not.  Fact is if Joe Brady never came over there to coach, would any of them be doing any of this?    

 

You want to not be bothered by the fact it is such a drastic increase in production in just one year, the question of how much of his success is coaching related, or that the expectations based off this success might be a little much, or the fact Chase Young will be a better long term pro, then don't be.   Joe Burrow is a awesome player and has had an amazing season but if there are issues those are the issues.  You want to just ignore them, then that is your prerogative.

 

 

2002 NFL Draft

1 Houston Texans David Carr QB
2 Carolina Panthers Julius Peppers DE

 

David Carr's college stats

1997	Fresno State	WAC		QB	4	5	11	45.5	53	4.8	0.7	0	1	67.7
1998	Fresno State	WAC		QB	7	22	41	53.7	228	5.6	5.0	1	1	103.5
2000	Fresno State	WAC	JR	QB	11	194	316	61.4	2338	7.4	7.0	18	11	135.4
*2001	Fresno State	WAC	SR	QB	14	344	533	64.5	4839	9.1	10.0	46	9	165.9

 

Wow I missed that one I guess, he is an example of a crazy high production level increase similar to Burrow at the college level, similar yardage increase as well as TD increase. 

Not comparing the two at all because the competition level is totally different of course, but still I guess it has happened before statistically to a high level prospect in football.  Similar path unlike Tannehill and Newton, not much first two seasons, then ok JR year and blew up as a SR.   David Carr was not with an offensive mastermind that came from the NFL that I can recall, Tedford was gone and Pat Hill was more a defensive guy but I forgot he made that kind of jump from one year to the next.  Andy Ludwig was the OC for Carr so no real NFL connection or elite level offensive mind there but he is still an OC in college football, is at Utah currently.

 

So I post something, you and or someone else makes fun of it, bring little to the table and or just disagree with it.  Anything else you want to add in terms of content or you just going to throw insults some more?  

[jrry32]

7 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Name me the college offense in college that runs a quick slant that breaks at 10-15 yards and turns into post or a corner route going the opposite direction? 

By definition, that's not a quick slant. Do you have a replay to show? Because you're not describing whatever happened clearly. If you're talking about choice routes, yes, plenty of college offenses have them.

Quote

Fact is if Joe Brady never came over there to coach, would any of them be doing any of this?    

Probably not. Ensminger was running a system out of the 1990's before Brady modernized it.

Quote

So I post something, you and or someone else makes fun of it, bring little to the table and or just disagree with it.  Anything else you want to add in terms of content or you just going to throw insults some more?  

I haven't used any insults. I noted that three of your opinions were bad.