Official 2020 QB Thread

[CWood21]

25 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

Arm talent is borderline elite but again not in the same class as Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes. Hurts shows touch, accuracy, and good decision making with his throws now. Two years ago, Hurts was so raw in these aspects that I thought even Tim Tebow at the time was a better passer.

I'm not sure I agree with a single thing.  Arm talent isn't even close to elite.  He's a damn good passer, but he's not even in the same stratosphere as top guys.  Hard for me to call someone elite at something if they're not among the top.  He's got good arm talent, but far from elite.  And anyone is better than Tim Tebow as a passer.

[DoleINGout]

2 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

To put it simply, I disagree with virtually everything you said in the first three paragraphs. I'll give you he has a great build for his play style. In my opinion, he's not an elite athlete, he's not Newton/Wilson or Allen, and nowhere near an elite arm talent.

Fair enough. Daniel Jones from Duke went sixth overall this year and just about nobody expected it. Josh Allen went seventh overall last year after attending a college in Wyoming and a lot of people were skeptical. Prior to his senior season, Kyler Murray did not start a single and was most people had him off their radar in the first round. Baker Mayfield was also not expected to go first overall until well after his senior season when a lot of the pre-draft work was being conducted. Mitch Trubisky from the North Carolina Tarheels somehow managed to go second overall a few years ago, (idiotically above the clear-cut top QB prospect Deshaun Watson at the time), and Blake Bortles from Central Florida went third overall as well with their standout traits being athleticism.

Jalen Hurts has had an amazing collegiate career as a starter for Alabama and now another power house team in Oklahoma, in a season where he is a favorite to win the Heisman Trophy as well. With Hurts’s ability, experience, and results, he is a slam dunk top-5 pick in 2020 and most likely a top two pick.

[Daniel]

4 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

The funny thing you could swap out Hurts with Murray, and we would have been saying the same thing about Kyler Murray at this point last year.  Just saying.

Except Kyler Murray didn’t have Tua and Herbert coming in on a two year wave of hype to compete with. That’s the big difference.

Tua is almost certainly going before Hurts because of the large amount of tape that has them both on the same team, and Tua outplaying him by a wide margin.

Then, Herbert, so far, has rocked it. It could happen, but for it to happen, one of them is going to have to take a huge nosedive, and Hurts is going to have to continue to play really well once he faces some real defenses.

The chances of both happening look really slim.

[DoleINGout]

3 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

And anyone is better than Tim Tebow as a passer.

I used that example to highlight the level Hurts was at two years ago. At that time, I thought Tebow was better.

[DoleINGout]

1 minute ago, Daniel said:

Then, Herbert, so far, has rocked it. It could happen, but for it to happen, one of them is going to have to take a huge nosedive, and Hurts is going to have to continue to play really well once he faces some real defenses.

Tu’a has more durability concerns to me than Hurts, as well as not standing out as a leader the way Hurts is revered. Herbert looks like another spread offense bust a la Sam Bradford or Blaine Gabbert. At best I see Jimmy Garoppolo for Herbert in the NFL.

[Daniel]

2 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

Tu’a has more durability concerns to me than Hurts, as well as not standing out as a leader the way Hurts is revered. Herbert looks like another spread offense bust a la Sam Bradford or Blaine Gabbert. At best I see Jimmy Garoppolo for Herbert in the NFL.

I mean, you’re entitled to believe those things, but not being the GM of any teams, that’s not really relevant.

Where are you getting durability or leadership concerns about Tua? Because I have not heard this. And if you’re the obly one that believes them, it’s not likely to affect his stock.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Daniel

[DoleINGout]

5 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I mean, you’re entitled to believe those things, but not being the GM of any teams, that’s not really relevant.

Where are you getting durability or leadership concerns about Tua? Because I have not heard this.

I didnt say there are leadership concerns with Tu’a or anybody. What I said was Hurts is clearly ahead in that regard by comparison. As for Tu’a being less durable, it’s my determination since he is smaller than Hurts and has already had to miss important games at Alabama.

 

edit: https://fansided.com/2019/07/01/tua-tagovailoa-injury-prone/

Edited September 25, 2019 by DoleINGout

[DoleINGout]

14 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Tua is almost certainly going before Hurts because of the large amount of tape that has them both on the same team, and Tua outplaying him by a wide margin.

Also wanted to address this point. Tu’a has been insulated by a great team his entire career surrounded by the best of the best. Hurts at least has proven capable of thriving in different environments with different teammates apart of different schemes. In Hurts’s last game with the Crimson Tide, he filled in and actually outplayed Tu’a which created a discussion at the time about who would be named the starter when Tu’a was healthy again. Of course we know what happened, Hurts was put back on the bench, and left to be the starter somewhere else, and it has been a great boost to his draft stock because Hurts has had the opportunity to prove a lot over this process. Even more so helping Hurts is the constant improvements he has made as a passer.

[Mox]

26 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

Fair enough. Daniel Jones from Duke went sixth overall this year and just about nobody expected it. Josh Allen went seventh overall last year after attending a college in Wyoming and a lot of people were skeptical. Prior to his senior season, Kyler Murray did not start a single and was most people had him off their radar in the first round. Baker Mayfield was also not expected to go first overall until well after his senior season when a lot of the pre-draft work was being conducted. Mitch Trubisky from the North Carolina Tarheels somehow managed to go second overall a few years ago, (idiotically above the clear-cut top QB prospect Deshaun Watson at the time), and Blake Bortles from Central Florida went third overall as well with their standout traits being athleticism.

Jalen Hurts has had an amazing collegiate career as a starter for Alabama and now another power house team in Oklahoma, in a season where he is a favorite to win the Heisman Trophy as well. With Hurts’s ability, experience, and results, he is a slam dunk top-5 pick in 2020 and most likely a top two pick.

This is true. Kyler and Daniel Jones surprised me with how high they went. It could happen. I don't see him as that type of prospect but that's irrelevant for his draft placement.

[BroncosFan2010]

I still don't get how so many people missed on Daniel Jones. There isn't a QB in the 2020 draft that I would take over him. He is the complete package.

[MSURacerDT55]

12 hours ago, Awsi Dooger said:

It is unbelievable that Urban Meyer stuck with JT "Little Game" Barrett for so long, including when he had Burrow on the roster. That single decision may have changed the course of Meyer's final years at Ohio State, and the college football landscape in general. Barrett would put up sub-5 YPA in major games and I remember one or two sub-4 YPA. He did improve somewhat as a senior

Where do I start with this take? A) Burrow wasn't close to being ready for the big stage at that point, B) He wasn't better than Haskins at that point, C)He wasn't the leader he is now so he D)Nothing in his spring ball film or late game action that would suggest he was better either Barrett or Haskins E) This is nothing more than an uninformed hot take F) Look, LSU gave him a new lease on life and he is taking advantage of it, my only question of his will be his arm strength at the next level, he is crazy accurate but the speed of the game is a lot faster and I just wonder if he can consistently fit balls into tight windows at the next level 

17 hours ago, DoleINGout said:

top 3 pick.

[DoleINGout]

1 hour ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

I still don't get how so many people missed on Daniel Jones. There isn't a QB in the 2020 draft that I would take over him. He is the complete package.

Level of competition was the biggest question mark.

[Ozzy]

Yeah all this Jalen Hurts is a top 3 pick talk needs to stop.  The guy has played literally no one this season, and will not play any legit defense till he plays Texas and then again with Iowa State.  Heck Texas has tons of injuries on defense so even that game might not be a good challenge either.  Those two games matter though if Texas can get back healthy, the rest it does not really matter especially in the Big 12 because the defense is just awful.

Put Hurts against Ohio State or Clemson he would look like a different player, he better hope they do not get to the college football playoff.  If he is a top 3 pick that means he is getting picked over Tua or Herbert and believing that is pathetic because there will not be 3 QBs drafted in a row because Chase Young will be in that mix for top 3 or will be #1 overall.

 

 

[DoleINGout]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

Chase Young will be in that mix for top 3 or will be #1 overall.

Yep, top three with Hurts and either Tu’a or perhaps more likely Jeudy.

[Tugboat]

On 24/09/2019 at 1:41 PM, NJerseypaint said:

I don't see why everyone is so down on Fromm. He might not have that WOW factor, but he's really smart with the ball and has faced great defenses with control and poise. I think he's going to be an instant contributor to whichever team lands him.

I don't know if it's even really "down" on Fromm...so much as probably adjusted back to where he should be.  He seems like an "Andy Dalton upside" type QB to me.  He does the right things, he can run a game and do the right things...but he's just sorely lacking those gamebreaking traits.  If he's drafted somewhere around where Dalton was, i can see a team being really happy with that...right up until, like Cincy...years later they realize it's just not quite enough.

He's that "high floor / low ceiling" type QB.  With all the "intangible" traits to succeed as that at the next level.

 

On 24/09/2019 at 2:15 PM, BroncosFan2010 said:

What is the downside of Hurts? Not the athlete of Lamar but somewhere between Jackson and Dak. Accurate, good frame, winning pedigree. Call me a copycat but with the NFL trending towards being friendlier to mobile QB's w/ questionable college system experience, I don't see a reason to not bet on Hurts.

I feel like comparing Hurts to Dak is relevant here.  They have similarities.  Neither is even in the same league as Lamar as an athletic runner.  Hurts is on pace to rack up an insane number of yards as a runner so far this year...but he just doesn't have that same explosive, dynamic quality Lamar did as a college QB.  I'm not sure he's really a better thrower either.  He's on pace to more or less match Dak's final season in total yards...but he's doing it so far, with an extremely skewed comp%.  It's into that danger zone on the opposite end of the "Josh Allen is inaccurate %" spectrum...where you start to have to really think about an inflationary system that designs easy completions and/or vs inferior competition.  It's a red flag number in the other direction, because it's probably a system mirage...which is probably hiding their real passing ability.

 

With Dak though...especially in retrospect, you can see that clear progression from "running QB" to...by his draft year, a guy who ran a lot less, and passed a lot more.  Signs of a QB who was settling in more as a pocket passer suited for the next level, while still having that threat as a runner from his earlier years.  Hurts to me...looks like a guy who has found a landing spot where they'll use his "running QB" ability to it's fullest, and give him a lot of easy looks as a passer in between.

 

Kinda feels like with Hurts, you're maybe getting Dak's athleticism at best...with Jackson's passing ability.  I'm just not getting the hype.