Lions sign a wide receiver

[Rockcity2]

6 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

Mentoring and being mentored are extremely important for success in nearly every field. Pure talent/ability can only take someone so far. There are intricate nuances in any profession that are learned after years of experience and multiple mistakes. Being able to learn those lessons without the same amount of time and effort invested is huge. Getting up to speed as quickly as possible combined with talent = key to success. The mental part of the game can be as important as the physical part. There's a reason that a guy who is 5'10 and runs a 4.5 40 can be a top WR in the league when you'd assume a 6'5 guy should just dominate in every situation.

There is such a disconnect on the information that we get as opposed to connected guys like Matt Miller of BR or Daniel Jeremiah in the media and then there's even more of a disconnect from what the scouts have on file. There are relationships from working with previous teams in the front office, agents, former teammates, high school coaches, teachers, principals, neighbours, college coaches, trainers, professors, etc, etc. They're doing in person interviews and psych evals. None of us have been in the Lions locker room and seen what it is like after a win or a loss. We haven't seen what it's like in a practice when they're sitting below 0.500 and out of a playoff spot.

To DHLF's point, we don't know these guys and we truly don't know the pulse of the team. We see what happens on the field and what the media passes along. Kearse is a guy that can help and he is a guy that could also be cut in August.

That's it... you don't know if this guy is mentoring anyone but you are writing it..

I'm just trying to figure out why... 

Players know what they need to do coaches coach.. it is that simply 

What does he have to offer..if he had something to offer it would show up on the stat sheet.. everything this guy knows the coaches sure as hell better know...

And tell me what is the culture of this team?? And how the hell is signing fringe players on one year deals changing it.. player development in my book is actually giving them a flippn shot

[Karnage84]

13 hours ago, Rockcity2 said:

That's it... you don't know if this guy is mentoring anyone but you are writing it..

I'm just trying to figure out why... 

Players know what they need to do coaches coach.. it is that simply 

What does he have to offer..if he had something to offer it would show up on the stat sheet.. everything this guy knows the coaches sure as hell better know...

And tell me what is the culture of this team?? And how the hell is signing fringe players on one year deals changing it.. player development in my book is actually giving them a flippn shot

Just because I haven't been in a NFL locker room before doesn't mean that I don't understand team building and personnel development. If players always knew what to do then we wouldn't need coaches. That is far from the case and coaching is a very important aspect. A good coach is a teacher and a motivator. Same with a good veteran player. Whether they're the active type who stays after practice and shows a guy how to do certain things to improve their game or just leads by example and lets younger guys pick up on what he does it's all the same.

Joe Flacco isn't going to help Drew Lock with his footwork or throwing motion but DL will watch what he does on a day-to-day basis as a starting NFL QB. If Joe comes to the facility for 6 am every day, watches a ton of tape, eats healthy, etc. this is a pattern of successful habits that the rookie can emulate and hopefully turn into on-field success when his turn is up. We just finished mini-camp. The FO has seen what those guys are able to offer right now. We still have training camp for them to prove themselves and earn a spot. I would rather take a veteran guy and know what I'm getting out of him instead of taking a flier on a young guy IF they haven't earned the spot. If they're on equal ground, I would probably lean towards the younger guy who is likely cheaper and has the potential to develop into more.

The Lions have a losing history, which leads into a losing culture. They're trying to turn around the expectations in the building and in the city on what it means to be a Detroit Lion. Our current definition of success is to break .500 and make the wildcard. Matt Patricia's experience and expectations has been to make the playoffs with a 1st round bye and win Super Bowl's. There is a HUGE gap between those two mentalities. MP and BQ feel there is a framework and a formula they want to follow in order to get there - ball control offense, control the clock, limit mistakes, lean on defense and force turnovers, keep opposing offense off of the field. It's a work in progress and we'll see whether it works or not. Culture is a very important part of any organization, especially in a production based industry such as sports or business.

[Nnivolcm]

On 6/10/2019 at 8:35 PM, Rockcity2 said:

So why spend the os helping anyone

I've found the best way for me to master a craft is by teaching it to others.

[Rockcity2]

On 6/24/2019 at 10:14 PM, Nnivolcm said:

I've found the best way for me to master a craft is by teaching it to others.

Even if it means possibly losing your job?

[Nnivolcm]

12 hours ago, Rockcity2 said:

Even if it means possibly losing your job?

Are you more likely to keep a job or find another job if you improve or if you stay the same?

Edited June 26, 2019 by Nnivolcm

[Rockcity2]

18 minutes ago, Nnivolcm said:

Are you more likely to keep a job or find another job if you improve or if you stay the same?

Age and previous experience matters here. And not so much in a good way for him

He's had plenty of time and doesn't appear to be trending up.. 

More power to him if he wants to be a coach.. but production wise it's not cutting it for me personally. And I sure can't see it improving as a 4th string in what looks likely to be a lot of 2 te looks

[Karnage84]

25 minutes ago, Rockcity2 said:

Age and previous experience matters here. And not so much in a good way for him

He's had plenty of time and doesn't appear to be trending up.. 

More power to him if he wants to be a coach.. but production wise it's not cutting it for me personally. And I sure can't see it improving as a 4th string in what looks likely to be a lot of 2 te looks

It makes sense on both sides - he had over 800 yards and 5 TD's in 2017 in his first year with the Jets. He had 371 yards and 1 TD last year. He's looking for an opportunity to bounce back and earn himself a new contract next year. The Lions aren't firm in their depth chart (unlike a team like the Falcons where you have Julio and Ridley as the 1/2 for sure) and he has scheme familiarity. If he's healthy, there's a chance that he can make an impact on the team and earn more money next year.

For the Lions, we have a young guy in Golladay that we expect should take the next step up in his development but isn't a guarantee he will; we have Marvin Jones that has battled injuries; Danny Amendola is closer towards the end of his career but should still be a contributor. He has a very specific role in the offense. If KG or MJ go down, Amendola isn't going to slide in and takeover for them. This is a veteran guy that has a history of success and he can play in place for either of those guys in a rotation or injury replacement. All of this is assuming that a) he is healthy and b) he can still physically compete at the level that the team needs. This is a win-win situation for the team and the player at a very low cost.

There are guys that train together who play on different teams all of the time who work to help each other get better. It isn't that different if you're going to be playing on the same team. If you're a guy who is that concerned about a young guy who you're helping coming in and replacing you, maybe you're right. Maybe you aren't the right guy and they will replace you with him or someone else.

[Nnivolcm]

55 minutes ago, Rockcity2 said:

Age and previous experience matters here. And not so much in a good way for him

He's had plenty of time and doesn't appear to be trending up.. 

More power to him if he wants to be a coach.. but production wise it's not cutting it for me personally. And I sure can't see it improving as a 4th string in what looks likely to be a lot of 2 te looks

It's been a while since any WR went to the Jets and started to trend up. He's still only 29 years old, I have more faith in him having an impact than I do Amendola.

[Karnage84]

26 minutes ago, Nnivolcm said:

It's been a while since any WR went to the Jets and started to trend up. He's still only 29 years old, I have more faith in him having an impact than I do Amendola.

I'm a tad more optimistic on Danny but am bearish on Marvin, especially injury wise. This is a group that could be very good and a group that could be very bad. My expectations for Danny are 500 yards and 3 TD's while Marvin is the #2 and should be around 800 yards and 5 - 6 TD's. If he's out for a few games, that will obviously take a hit. I'm not confident that we have the guys who can pick up the slack and the offense can go "next man up" but it's also not out of the realm of possibility. Kearse could help stabilize the depth if he's closer to the 2017 version of himself. If we get the 2018 version then we're in trouble.

[Rockcity2]

1 hour ago, Karnage84 said:

I'm a tad more optimistic on Danny but am bearish on Marvin, especially injury wise. This is a group that could be very good and a group that could be very bad. My expectations for Danny are 500 yards and 3 TD's while Marvin is the #2 and should be around 800 yards and 5 - 6 TD's. If he's out for a few games, that will obviously take a hit. I'm not confident that we have the guys who can pick up the slack and the offense can go "next man up" but it's also not out of the realm of possibility. Kearse could help stabilize the depth if he's closer to the 2017 version of himself. If we get the 2018 version then we're in trouble.

Maybe I have a bad look about it but if Jones or kg go down I feel the season will be lost.. And would rather see what one of younger guys has.. jk just hasn't produced anywhere really,not sure why anyone would expect anymore from him.. I can't see him guiding us to the playoffs.. And while I can't with a younger guy either there is the unknown element with them.. teams won't have there mo like the do with jk.. all I could see is teams sliding there coverage...all for a 1 year deal id rather see if i could get lucky on a younger guy.. jk's productions shouldn't be to hard to obtain...

It's the Quinn thing tho... sign guys on one year deals and let them walk.. for what why.. if your simply just trying to fill roster spots why not do it with someone who has football life left.. that's not culture in my book

Edited June 26, 2019 by Rockcity2

[Karnage84]

11 minutes ago, Rockcity2 said:

Maybe I have a bad look about it but if Jones or kg go down I feel the season will be lost.. And would rather see what one of younger guys has.. jk just hasn't produced anywhere really,not sure why anyone would expect anymore from him.. I can't see him guiding us to the playoffs.. And while I can't with a younger guy either there is the unknown element with them.. teams won't have there mo like the do with jk.. all I could see is teams sliding there coverage...all for a 1 year deal id rather see if i could get lucky on a younger guy.. jk's productions shouldn't be to hard to obtain...

It's the Quinn thing tho... sign guys on one year deals and let them walk.. for what why.. if your simply just trying to fill roster spots why not do it with someone who has football life left.. that's not culture in my book

It's because the team is neither top heavy or deep with proven talent. I just pulled this off of the team's website. I added a year which may or may not be the right thing to do unless they are a rookie (R).

Kenny, Marvin, Danny are our top 3 for now. Then we have Deontez Alexander (2nd yr), Jonathan Duhart (R), Travis Fulgham (R), Andy Jones (3rd year), Jermaine Kearse (9th year), Tom Kennedy (R), Chris Lacy (2), Tommylee Lewis (5th), Brandon Powell (3rd year), Brandon Reilly (2nd year) all competing for spots 4, 5/6.

A WR is expected to develop into who they are within 3 years.

3+ Years: Tommylee Lewis, Andy Jones and Brandon Powell have pretty much shown who they are as players to this point. If the Lions are satisfied with that, then we could see one of these guys round things out. Powell has been the most productive guy out of the bunch.

Rookies: We have Fulgham (5th rounder), Duhart (UDFA) and Kennedy (UDFA) as complete unknowns. Fulgham seems to have the best chance to wind up on the roster with Duhart as a potential PS guy out of this grouping.

1-3 Years: Alexander, Lacy, Reilly all fall into this range. We have a sampling and it depends on how they develop. None of these guys have done anything on the field so far, at least not for the Lions.

Kearse is a proven commodity. If his health is equivalent to the rest of these guys, then I expect he has a real chance to outshine this group and be our #4. He brings a lot more to the table and there isn't really a true 'breakout" player in this group IMO.

If I had to guess, the Lions carry 5 WR's: Kenny, Marvin, Danny, Kearse and then the best guy out of Fulgham, Jones and Powell. Riddick can be lined up in the slot if need be so I would probably give tiebreaker to Jones.

 

[Rockcity2]

6 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

It's because the team is neither top heavy or deep with proven talent. I just pulled this off of the team's website. I added a year which may or may not be the right thing to do unless they are a rookie (R).

Kenny, Marvin, Danny are our top 3 for now. Then we have Deontez Alexander (2nd yr), Jonathan Duhart (R), Travis Fulgham (R), Andy Jones (3rd year), Jermaine Kearse (9th year), Tom Kennedy (R), Chris Lacy (2), Tommylee Lewis (5th), Brandon Powell (3rd year), Brandon Reilly (2nd year) all competing for spots 4, 5/6.

A WR is expected to develop into who they are within 3 years.

3+ Years: Tommylee Lewis, Andy Jones and Brandon Powell have pretty much shown who they are as players to this point. If the Lions are satisfied with that, then we could see one of these guys round things out. Powell has been the most productive guy out of the bunch.

Rookies: We have Fulgham (5th rounder), Duhart (UDFA) and Kennedy (UDFA) as complete unknowns. Fulgham seems to have the best chance to wind up on the roster with Duhart as a potential PS guy out of this grouping.

1-3 Years: Alexander, Lacy, Reilly all fall into this range. We have a sampling and it depends on how they develop. None of these guys have done anything on the field so far, at least not for the Lions.

Kearse is a proven commodity. If his health is equivalent to the rest of these guys, then I expect he has a real chance to outshine this group and be our #4. He brings a lot more to the table and there isn't really a true 'breakout" player in this group IMO.

If I had to guess, the Lions carry 5 WR's: Kenny, Marvin, Danny, Kearse and then the best guy out of Fulgham, Jones and Powell. Riddick can be lined up in the slot if need be so I would probably give tiebreaker to Jones.

 

Lol I feel we are going in circles..

How do you expect a guy to prove himself in 3 years if he doesn't see meaningful game snaps? With a crap oc .. Stafford if I remember right didn't even play a preseason game.. you had flat out bums throwing the ball out there that aren't even in the league

Then you call kearse a proven commodity why is that? Have you seen his career stats? Carroll gets player development and gave udfa kearse a real shot.. kearse is a gritty player but that just isn't enough for me and apparently two other teams and no one else willing to sign him.. 

But you go and get bevell and let ebron walk for nothing... to turn around and draft another top 10 te and overpay another.. sure ebron had his issues but who wouldn't in jimmybob throw it behind the line of scrimmage offence..

I know the last part had nothing to do with really what we are talking about.. but ebron in bevell offence and say if they still drafted TJ coulda might had something special.. I'm bored deal with it .. Quinn just does some odd stuff 

[Karnage84]

14 hours ago, Rockcity2 said:

Lol I feel we are going in circles..

How do you expect a guy to prove himself in 3 years if he doesn't see meaningful game snaps? With a crap oc .. Stafford if I remember right didn't even play a preseason game.. you had flat out bums throwing the ball out there that aren't even in the league

Then you call kearse a proven commodity why is that? Have you seen his career stats? Carroll gets player development and gave udfa kearse a real shot.. kearse is a gritty player but that just isn't enough for me and apparently two other teams and no one else willing to sign him.. 

But you go and get bevell and let ebron walk for nothing... to turn around and draft another top 10 te and overpay another.. sure ebron had his issues but who wouldn't in jimmybob throw it behind the line of scrimmage offence..

I know the last part had nothing to do with really what we are talking about.. but ebron in bevell offence and say if they still drafted TJ coulda might had something special.. I'm bored deal with it .. Quinn just does some odd stuff 

This is definitely going in circles and we're coming back to things that have already been discussed at great length re: Ebron.

Good players play and are given opportunities to get on the field. The coaches and FO see these guys in OTA's, minicamp, training camp, regular season practices, etc. If they saw a good player in need of opportunity, they would see the field. With on-field success would be more playing time and a bigger role. Especially in situations where a guy like Marvin goes down for any period of time. A lot of these guys are from small schools. It's not often (but not impossible) for a guy to make the leap from small school competition to the NFL.

We'll see how things look when training camp rolls around in a couple weeks.