Eagles Extend Carson Wentz

[pnies20]

Y tho?

[Matts4313]

39 minutes ago, Jroc04 said:

Which still lands him 5th. So, if he’s hitting those escalators, he’s damn worth it correct? 

Without seeing those incentives it’s hard to say how exactly expensive it’ll be. Is it for games played, winning games, playoffs, MVPs? Who knows. I’d imagine he’d keep some sort of nut to pay Carson in case but for him not to have a contingency plan for payroll is pretty irresponsible. Ill go out on a limb and say Howie has a little more than thought the process out. 

You answered your first question with your second comment.

If he hits escalators he will be worth it right?

Well.. What are the escalators? 

[Jroc04]

7 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

You answered your first question with your second comment.

If he hits escalators he will be worth it right?

Well.. What are the escalators? 

It’s a 154M deal. That’s 8th in terms of average. If he hits the escalators, it’ll be 170M and 5th in average. (And that’s before the next 2-3 QBs are right around the corner of getting a deal done) If he’s hitting his incentives, for a QB, I’ll be happy paying him top 5 money. That would clearly equate to team success. Either way, fair deal for me. The big concerns are the injuries, clearly. But time will tell for that to come to a head. Point is, we save a little later by gambling now on a very talent but oft injured QB. But honestly, what other move can we make? We’ve invested a lot to get him and now watch him walk while another team gives him even more money possibly anyway? Eagles got a great deal with the position they’re in. And Carson got some security in case he lands in the hospital again. I think it’s a win/win. 

[tom cody]

I saw that. Wentz is a very good QB but his injuries are a bit much. I don't know if I'd have given him this sort of deal. 

[ACO]

6 minutes ago, Jroc04 said:

It’s a 154M deal. That’s 8th in terms of average. If he hits the escalators, it’ll be 170M and 5th in average. (And that’s before the next 2-3 QBs are right around the corner of getting a deal done) If he’s hitting his incentives, for a QB, I’ll be happy paying him top 5 money. That would clearly equate to team success. Either way, fair deal for me. The big concerns are the injuries, clearly. But time will tell for that to come to a head. Point is, we save a little later by gambling now on a very talent but oft injured QB. But honestly, what other move can we make? We’ve invested a lot to get him and now watch him walk while another team gives him even more money possibly anyway? Eagles got a great deal with the position they’re in. And Carson got some security in case he lands in the hospital again. I think it’s a win/win. 

I agree. If he has the year they think he will then his numbers will jump significantly next year. Make that deal now. The only real knock to Wentz is his durability. And it is a major one, yes. He will have to prove to everyone this year he can play a complete season. Other than that it is without a doubt a win/win situation.

[Matts4313]

2 minutes ago, Jroc04 said:

It’s a 154M deal. That’s 8th in terms of average. If he hits the escalators, it’ll be 170M and 5th in average. (And that’s before the next 2-3 QBs are right around the corner of getting a deal done) If he’s hitting his incentives, for a QB, I’ll be happy paying him top 5 money. That would clearly equate to team success. Either way, fair deal for me. The big concerns are the injuries, clearly. But time will tell for that to come to a head. Point is, we save a little later by gambling now on a very talent but oft injured QB. But honestly, what other move can we make? We’ve invested a lot to get him and now watch him walk while another team gives him even more money possibly anyway? Eagles got a great deal with the position they’re in. And Carson got some security in case he lands in the hospital again. I think it’s a win/win. 

You had no choice and signing him early is smart. But if you told me that the 6 years of his contract are like the first 3 years, then no he obviously wouldnt be worth it. 

He is just barely over .5 in wins. He has never made it to or played in a playoff game (or even a win and get in). 

He is a career 92 QB rating guy (which is now mid-tier). 

His TD:INT ratio is just okay (a bit better than 2:1)

He has played in 13 healthy games and has missed ~20% of the available games (more including playoffs). 

 

Now, I dont believe any of that to be true, as I told you in the Eagles forum. *IF* he can stay healthy and *IF* the eagles can keep a solid team around him, then absolutely 100% this was a great deal for you. 

If it were me and I was an Eagles fan, I would be really excited about this. Its a tad overpay, but the timing was really smart. 

[HTTRDynasty]

4 minutes ago, Jroc04 said:

It’s a 154M deal. That’s 8th in terms of average. If he hits the escalators, it’ll be 170M and 5th in average. (And that’s before the next 2-3 QBs are right around the corner of getting a deal done) If he’s hitting his incentives, for a QB, I’ll be happy paying him top 5 money. That would clearly equate to team success. Either way, fair deal for me. The big concerns are the injuries, clearly. But time will tell for that to come to a head. Point is, we save a little later by gambling now on a very talent but oft injured QB. But honestly, what other move can we make? We’ve invested a lot to get him and now watch him walk while another team gives him even more money possibly anyway? Eagles got a great deal with the position they’re in. And Carson got some security in case he lands in the hospital again. I think it’s a win/win. 

You could wait another year to see if history repeats itself once again.  That’s all we have to go on.  If he’s dealing with injuries again next year, it’ll become pretty clear that this guy just can’t stay healthy. In that case, better hope Sudfield has some Foles magic in him. 

I get the whole “taking a gamble” angle when it comes to his injuries, but it’s a bad bet based on what we’ve seen so far. 

I think Wentz is a top 10 QB when healthy, but I’m still very happy the Eagles did this deal now instead of waiting another year to gather more data on his ability to stay healthy. I personally think the risk is too much for the perceived reward here.

[HTTRDynasty]

Those other QBs you are comparing him to in the top 8 or 5 or w/e are almost all non-injury prone players. On a per game basis, the contracts are worth it, but only if they play 16 games or more. Only exception I can think of is Rodgers, but at least Rodgers has shown he is capable of winning a SB. 

EDIT: and Rodgers is actually the perfect example of a QB not being worth his contract if he can’t give you 16 games per year. The Packers are paying way too much money per game for him over the life of his contract, which is why they haven’t made the playoffs the last two years. 

Edited June 7, 2019 by HTTRG3Dynasty

[ACO]

3 hours ago, Art_Vandalay said:

I don't think Dak is bad. He's cool under pressure, avoids mistakes, and doesn't lose games. But what I'm saying, and it really isn't debatable, is there's a pretty big gap in the peak level of play that we've seen from Carson and Dak. During the 2017 season, the words associated with him in the media were "incredible, MVP, elite." You have never heard those words associated with Dak. With him, you'll hear, "efficient, winner, consistent." These aren't bad words. But they're indicative of his ceiling. You can win games with Dak. But as far as playing above the X's and O's and carrying his team to victory when the rest of his guys are struggling, that's just not going to happen.

Carson's a volatile stock. Dak's a mutual fund.

I would actually agree with this. Wentz is a better QB and has a higher ceiling. At the end of the day that doesn't mean they will win games or one will have a better career. More goes into football than that. But with those qualities it makes sense for each team to do what they do. Eagles locking up Wentz is a no brainer despite his injury history. The same for the Cowboys with Dak despite some of his clear concerns. People have their biases depending on who they root for... yada yada... but both these players are pretty good and help their teams. I agree with Matt in their are a lot closer than people want to admit though Wentz for sure has the edge. 

[childofpudding]

I think it's well worth it. After all, Wentz is a proven playoff performer.

What's that? He hasn't even played in a playoff game yet?

Well, he has shown that he is consistently an elite QB.

Say again? Last season he was outside the top 10 in ANY/A, DVOA, PFF's QB ranking and ESPN's QBR?

Well, at least he's a rock and never misses a game.

Are you serious? He has a long injury history going back to high school?

Oh, OK.

 

[Jroc04]

41 minutes ago, HTTRG3Dynasty said:

You could wait another year to see if history repeats itself once again.  That’s all we have to go on.  If he’s dealing with injuries again next year, it’ll become pretty clear that this guy just can’t stay healthy. In that case, better hope Sudfield has some Foles magic in him. 

I get the whole “taking a gamble” angle when it comes to his injuries, but it’s a bad bet based on what we’ve seen so far. 

I think Wentz is a top 10 QB when healthy, but I’m still very happy the Eagles did this deal now instead of waiting another year to gather more data on his ability to stay healthy. I personally think the risk is too much for the perceived reward here.

I can certainly see it from this angle. However, those contracts are going to jump crazy, everyone knows it. If Carson stays healthy and kills it this year, there’s no negotiations. He gets max money, max guaranteed and a max signing bonus. Doing it early, taking the risk, can save the team valuable cap room when he’s hitting his prime. Howie always makes moves with the future on the horizon. He learned from Joe Banner. I know you understand, just reiterating the point. 

[Jroc04]

19 minutes ago, childofpudding said:

I think it's well worth it. After all, Wentz is a proven playoff performer.

What's that? He hasn't even played in a playoff game yet?

Well, he has shown that he is consistently an elite QB.

Say again? Last season he was outside the top 10 in ANY/A, DVOA, PFF's QB ranking and ESPN's QBR?

Well, at least he's a rock and never misses a game.

Are you serious? He has a long injury history going back to high school?

Oh, OK.

 

Timing isn’t perfect but it’ll pay off if it goes well. I think you’re being a little ridiculous. I think most to all GMs make the deal if they know who and what he is. You find a possible franchise QB, all the while trading a lot of assets to acquire him, get a SB in your pocket in the meantime, you don’t watch him walk out the door. You’re going to give him every opportunity to prove he can’t before you make rash judgments. He leaves or is consistently hurt, you’re going to be in limbo anyway. I’d gamble in hopes it pays off. What are you losing? 

At the very least, let him play the game fully healthy with a good understanding of the pro game before passing judgment. The deal is debatable. The player, optimally, is a no brainer. 

[turtle28]

15 hours ago, EaglesPeteC said:

A Washington fan trying roast another team’s front office. 

I’m sorry was that not true? How did the 2011 Dream Team go?

In no way am I defending the Redskins front office, ours is a clown show but the last time you tried to buy a Super Bowl it didn’t work out well either. 

[Eagles $5$]

4 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

Thats completely false. How did you come to that conclusion? 

And please dont tell me silly people on a message board. 

And also the fact that they haven't commited to him yet... Jerry Jones even said himself that Dak isn't worth $30million a year. He isn't that caliber of a QB, which means franchise. 

Edited June 7, 2019 by Eagles $5$

[ACO]

9 minutes ago, Eagles $5$ said:

And also the fact that they haven't commited to him yet... Jerry Jones even said himself that Dak isn't worth $30million a year. He isn't that caliber of a QB, which means franchise. 

I don't think this is very true. The Cowboys are going to pay Dak. They want Dak. That is beyond clear. They just doing what they always do with their players. They could have got Tank Lawrenece way cheaper last year but they gambled and lost and then they played tug this year for no reason. The Jones family are cheap AF billionaires. It is what it is. But don't fool yourself in thinking they not paying Dak because they 1000000% are.