Matts4313 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Danger said: The Rookie season for QBs over the past decade has proven time and time again to be relatively unimportant in a QBs long t You know, I only hear that from Eagles fans on this site. Did you all get together and decide this is true? I think you are the 3rd or 4th Eagles fan to say this to me today. Quote Carson had a passer rating over 98.0 in 9 of 11 games this past season, over 108.0 in 7 of 11 games. His only truly BAD performance came on the road at the Saints. Sure, he was efficient. The reason he was thought of as "the next big thing" in 2017 was the ridiculous TD numbers he was putting up. He had 27 TDs in 9 games. This year? Wentz put up a very "Dak" like performance. High comp %, Good TD:INT ratio, 100ish QB rating...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadway Joe Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 This has become very tiresome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCoy Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: You know, I only hear that from Eagles fans on this site. Did you all get together and decide this is true? History told us this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 It's a common rule of thumb in sports statistics that you omit the best and worst performance to get a true gauge of a player's performance over a span. For Carson in 2018 this is the Giants game Week 4, and the Saints game. Numbers: 234/332 (70.5%), 18 TD, 4 INT - 108.3 Rating Lets do the same thing for Dak this past season. (Seattle Game and @Giants Week 17) Numbers: 310/448 (69.2%), 17 TD, 6 INT - 97.8 Rating Dak's numbers are much more close to his cumulative season. The Saints game alone really tanked Carson's number because he was trying everything he could to will his team to win on the road from a massive deficit against a really good team. I've seen countless times where Dak when he's down by multiple scores just checks the ball down and folds essentially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Danger said: It's a common rule of thumb in sports statistics that you omit the best and worst performance to get a true gauge of a player's performance over a span. For Carson in 2018 this is the Giants game Week 4, and the Saints game. Numbers: 234/332 (70.5%), 18 TD, 4 INT - 108.3 Rating Lets do the same thing for Dak this past season. (Seattle Game and @Giants Week 17) Numbers: 310/448 (69.2%), 17 TD, 6 INT - 97.8 Rating Dak's numbers are much more close to his cumulative season. The Saints game alone really tanked Carson's number because he was trying everything he could to will his team to win on the road from a massive deficit against a really good team. I've seen countless times where Dak when he's down by multiple scores just checks the ball down and folds essentially. Im not really trying to turn this into a Dak debate (even though I did slip in a couple jabs). I was responding to the idea of why Wentz is over/under rated. Again, I think when you all look at Wentz, you see the guy that scored 27 TDs in 9 Games and had the entire world drooling. You think "Thats what he is!" When other people look at him, they see a guy who had one incredible stretch but cant stay healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: You know, I only hear that from Eagles fans on this site. Did you all get together and decide this is true? Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Dak Prescott, Robert Griffin, Andrew Luck, Marcus Mariota all very recent examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Just now, Matts4313 said: Im not really trying to turn this into a Dak debate (even though I did slip in a couple jabs). I was responding to the idea of why Wentz is over/under rated. Again, I think when you all look at Wentz, you see the guy that scored 27 TDs in 9 Games and had the entire world drooling. You think "Thats what he is!" When other people look at him, they see a guy who had one incredible stretch but cant stay healthy. Again if people want to knock him because they don't believe in his ability to stay healthy, I accept that, but people are acting as if when he is on the field that he isn't a Top 8 QB in the league. I have him somewhere between 9-11 because of his health concerns right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiltman Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 47 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: With cap-carry over, there is really no point in front loading deals any more. But the rumor for Dak was $30m/yr. Number probably just jumped 5-10% More so for being tied to him than the actual money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, Danger said: Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Dak Prescott, Robert Griffin, Andrew Luck, Marcus Mariota all very recent examples. 1 minute ago, Kiltman said: More so for being tied to him than the actual money You guys make it really hard not to restart Dak debates. I will say this. I have much more confidence that Dak can lead us to the playoffs than Wentz can for you guys. And also, if we took Jason Peters, Jason Kelce, Zack Ertz and Alshon Jeffrey off your team, how do you think Wentz would do? Because thats essentially the deck of cards Dak had during his terrible stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezla Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: You guys make it really hard not to restart Dak debates. I will say this. I have much more confidence that Dak can lead us to the playoffs than Wentz can for you guys. And also, if we took Jason Peters, Jason Kelce, Zack Ertz and Alshon Jeffrey off your team, how do you think Wentz would do? Because thats essentially the deck of cards Dak had during his terrible stretch. If you're the only guy debating it, it's not a debate, it's delusional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 9 minutes ago, Jeezla said: If you're the only guy debating it, it's not a debate, it's delusional. Quote Yeah, I'm sure the guy that gets injured every year will become more durable as he gets older. Dallas, please pay Dak more to make me feel better. Quote Lot of money for a regular season player. Quote Dak is not quiet in the elite tier yet but I think people are vastly underestimating his ability. Dak has a chance to become an elite QB in this league with more experience and improved weapons like Cooper. Quote Dak going to get the first fully guaranteed contract somehow whereas Wentz is gonna shatter into 20 million pieces. Also the eagles let the wrong QB and paid the wrong one. Quote If Dak continues to keep them in the post season like he has done 2 out of 3 years then that is a win for the Cowboys. I am not interested in the Wentz vs Dak debate because I think they both quality players. So far Dak has proved himself. He not the best but he has achieved plenty. Wentz had a MVP season that was cut short and then last year was a mess. He is very talented but his durability is a major concern. So hopefully this year proves everyone wrong because with this extra money that pressure is stronger than ever. That goes for Dak too. Seems like plenty of people are questioning the contract (not me) and also suggesting Dak is in the same general range as Wentz.... So I guess... not delusional? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daimonas Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 finally some peace and quiet. should have done that awhile ago. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiltman Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 33 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: You guys make it really hard not to restart Dak debates. I will say this. I have much more confidence that Dak can lead us to the playoffs than Wentz can for you guys. And also, if we took Jason Peters, Jason Kelce, Zack Ertz and Alshon Jeffrey off your team, how do you think Wentz would do? Because thats essentially the deck of cards Dak had during his terrible stretch. I think the fact that the Cowboys have yet to extend Dak tells a lot of the truth. they could have gotten this done awhile ago if they thought it was a slam dunk move to cough over a long top contract, ladened with guarantees. They had the choice to do that before Wilson, and then Wentz, moved the QB market up. With Goff having the same rep as Wentz, that deal will be just like Carson’s. (Unless Goff wants a longer term deal...which would be dumb) So optics now is Dak wants what they got. If the Cowboys don’t give him that will he be happy? Dak had an incredible value output as a 4th round pick. That goes away when you are paying him $32+ mil. I think the Cowboys were hoping to slide in at like $26-27 per. It’s not just rival fans, your own team and fans talk about an uncertainty with committing long term to Dak, and they lost a lot of leverage today with a middle ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Kiltman said: I think the fact that the Cowboys have yet to extend Dak tells a lot of the truth. they could have gotten this done awhile ago if they thought it was a slam dunk move to cough over a long top contract, ladened with guarantees. They had the choice to do that before Wilson, and then Wentz, moved the QB market up. With Goff having the same rep as Wentz, that deal will be just like Carson’s. (Unless Goff wants a longer term deal...which would be dumb) So optics now is Dak wants what they got. If the Cowboys don’t give him that will he be happy? Dak had an incredible value output as a 4th round pick. That goes away when you are paying him $32+ mil. I think the Cowboys were hoping to slide in at like $26-27 per. It’s not just rival fans, your own team and fans talk about an uncertainty with committing long term to Dak, and they lost a lot of leverage today with a middle ground. Dak has had Romo/dead money of 25M+ every year he has been in the league. Dak is in the same tier as Wentz, so if its dumb for us, its dumb for you all. Those fans who hate Dak hate Romo. And they mostly think Wentz sucks too. A lot of them have been laughing at your franchise. They literally hate everyone but Brady. The Cowboys will sign him. The number floated around has been ~$30m since March. But this is how the Cowboys have handled every negotiation for the last 10 years. They slow play it. Reading into that is nothing more than creating your own narrative. Jerry himself said "Dak is going to get paid an extraordinary contract" and that they "are ready to make him the highest paid player in franchise history". And *no one* from our team has said anything about uncertainty about Dak. That is 100% false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBreezy Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Broadway Joe said: This has become very tiresome Matt’s sits in his basement all day, crunching numbers on Prescott vs Wentz, scouring the internet for any Dak/Wentz argument he can jump into Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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