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Who Is Better, Luka, Jrue, or Draymond?


the lone star

Who Is Better, Luka, Jrue, or Draymond?  

17 members have voted

  1. 1. Who Is Better, Luka, Jrue, or Draymond?

    • Draymond Green
    • Jrue Holiday
    • Luka Doncic


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13 minutes ago, 11sanchez11 said:

is easily the worst defensive player in the nba, nothing about him is good lol. 

Luka: -3.9 +/-

Booker: +3.8 +/-

so the mavs were worse when luka was on the court and the suns were better when booker was on the court

Jamal Crawford can at least score though. DFS, Kleber, Ryan Broekhoff, and co. aren't going to do that for the Mavs.

I'll have to read up on those advanced +/- numbers. Because for a team that loses more often than they win, you'd think the +/- would be negative, which means that Luka's +/- may have been higher than most other Mavs. I'll have to spend some time looking into that though.

But using those same play-by-play numbers, Devin Booker's on court +/- was over twice as worse as Luka's. Devin's was -7.4 and Luka's was -3.4. But again, for a team like the Suns, who won like half as many games as the Mavs, that's most probably expected. And blowouts can really skew those numbers.

Again, I'll have to read up on them, cross-check against 82games.com, and look at each individual player's +/- numbers too.

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28 minutes ago, the lone star said:

I'll have to read up on those advanced +/- numbers. Because for a team that loses more often than they win, you'd think the +/- would be negative, which means that Luka's +/- may have been higher than most other Mavs. I'll have to spend some time looking into that though.

 

+/- is super easy

it is per 100 possessions 

while you are on the court: your team scores 110 pts, the other team scores 100; +10
while you off the court: your team scores 100 pts, the other team scores 100 pt; +0

so your +/- would be +10. 

so for luka it was:

on: 109.8 scored, 113.1 allowed; -3.4
off: 109.8 scored, 109.3 allowed; +.5

for a -3.9 

28 minutes ago, the lone star said:

But using those same play-by-play numbers, Devin Booker's on court +/- was over twice as worse as Luka's. Devin's was -7.4 and Luka's was -3.4.

which is my point to show you Booker's teammates were worse. when luka wasn't on the court the mavs outscored the other team. when booker wasn't on the court the Suns got outscored by 11.2 pts per 100 possessions. That is a bigger difference than the net rating of the Clippers and Knicks. 

Edited by 11sanchez11
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4 minutes ago, 11sanchez11 said:

+/- is super easy

it is per 100 possessions 

while you are on the court: your team scores 110 pts, the other team scores 100; +10
while you off the court: your team scores 100 pts, the other team scores 100 pt; +0

so your +/- would be +10. 

so for luka it was:

on: 109.8 scored, 113.1 allowed; -3.4
off: 109.8 scored, 109.3 allowed; +.5

for a -3.9 

which is my point to show you Booker's teammates were worse. when luka wasn't on the court the mavs outscored the other team. when booker wasn't on the court the Suns got outscored by 11.2 pts per 100 possessions. 

So I understand that part of +/- but there's an OnCourt +/- and Net +/-, but I don't see an OffCourt +/-. Like, where can I find the 109.8 and 109.3 for when Luka is off the court?

Also, there is Real Plus-Minus which suggests Luka is better than Booker, but I need to read up on that stat as well, because I don't know where they're getting some of the numbers.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/position/5

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4 minutes ago, the lone star said:

Like, where can I find the 109.8 and 109.3 for when Luka is off the court?

bball reference has a on/off tab on each player's page

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/doncilu01/on-off/2019

6 minutes ago, the lone star said:

Also, there is Real Plus-Minus which suggests Luka is better than Booker

rpm also suggests that danny green is a top ten player in the NBA. and nikola vucevic is better than lebron james.

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13 minutes ago, 11sanchez11 said:

bball reference has a on/off tab on each player's page

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/doncilu01/on-off/2019

rpm also suggests that danny green is a top ten player in the NBA. and nikola vucevic is better than lebron james.

Vucevic is my boy and LeBron kinda had a rough year. But yeah, I got you, and to be fair, A LOT of stats will misplace people like that. 
I guess I'm underrating the defense the Mavericks had, because Kleber, Powell, DFS, Courtney Lee, Devin Harris, those are some solid defensive players off the bench. Just wish the team had another scorer to pair with Luka during the 2nd half of last season. Barnes was kinda meh, Wes wasn't very good, and DSJ was overrated. Then they all got traded and a player like Brunson had to step up. Well, I'm also probably overrating the offense of the Suns because I'd take guys like Ayton, Oubre, TJ Warren, or Jamal Crawford, lol.

Both teams were pretty trashy though. Let's hope they perform better next season.

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Right now:

Draymond

Jrue

Luka

 

But Luka at 19 isn’t too far behind either and his potential is infinitely higher than both. Luka at 19 is an All Star. At 20 he’ll make his first All Star game.

The shooting will come with age and practice, but the main thing holding him back (and I say holding him back lightly) is his turnovers and fascination with trying difficult passes all the time and his shot selection. But he’s 19 so he’ll fix it.

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