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Is the Patriots roster actually GOOD? Or is it propped up by coaching?

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

Their teams have talent, but I do think the biggest impact is how their talent is used. What Belichek's Pats have always been better at than anyone else in the league, IMO, is finding players with niches, or incomplete games, or limited skillsets, and figuring out how to make the system maximize them instead of trying to find players to fit the scheme they want to run. This often results in a Pats team that isn't super talented on paper, but every player on that roster is being used as appropriately as humanly possible, and sometimes a mediocre player being used 100% effectively can actually contribute a more positive perform...

 

The problem is "not always".

The magic wand didn't exist until after 2014 season.

Before 2007, Brady already did something unprecedent.

Edited by William Lee

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7 hours ago, game3525 said:

This has to be a troll post.

There was nothing unique about that final drive. Any competent veteran QB could do this. Zero pass-rush and soft zone coverage, that is easy pickings for any veteran QB. Brady is the greatest QB of all-time, but using this video as evidence to why he is unique is laughable. 

Not a troll post. This dude just has issues.

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6 hours ago, Daniel said:

Continuing with personal attacks is a really good way to get banned.  It also doesn't help your case.

Let him keep doing it! 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

Let him keep doing it! 

I would stop you from implying Peyton, Brees and Rodgers are idiots, as you believe they could not even understand the secrets of an offense system as Pats receivers did.

Edited by William Lee

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3 minutes ago, William Lee said:

I would stop you from implying Peyton, Brees and Rodgers are idiots, as you believe they could even understand the secrets of an offense system as Pats receivers did.

I cannot even comprehend what you're trying to say to be honest.

I think Brady is the GOAT player. Belichick is also the GOAT coach.

 

I find it hilarious that you seem to think Belichick would be out of a job if Brady weren't the QB. Brady is good. Better than all the rest of the QB's in the league probably ever. But your arguments are insane. "No other QB knows how to make reads or look off defenders." "Nobody else demonstrates good footwork or a good grasp of the underneath game." "Tom Brady created the offensive scheme the second he was given the starting role."

 

Do you really think the coaches just went, "OK Mr. 6th round pick. Design the offense you want. We're going to go over here and flick our puds."

 

 

You seem to have a very difficult time realizing that having an elite coach and QB are not mutually exclusive. I honestly don't get it. But your posting style is going to get you banned anyways so I'm not going to continue this conversation. Not worth my time or energy and I honestly don't know why I fell for it this time.

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It has been propped up by coaching for years. That goes for Brady as well. I can't take his goat status seriously (or anyone that has played after 2003. The NFL has catered way too much to offense since then). You put the Patriot rosters for the last 18 years in Cleveland without Belichick, Ernie Adams, or Kraft, and they would have zero rings.

It is also propped up by the NFL. The Pats are the leagues' darlings (just like SF was in the 90's), and they let them get away with murder.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

It has been propped up by coaching for years. That goes for Brady as well. I can't take his goat status seriously (or anyone that has played after 2003. The NFL has catered way too much to offense since then). You put the Patriot rosters for the last 18 years in Cleveland without Belichick, Ernie Adams, or Kraft, and they would have zero rings.

It is also propped up by the NFL. The Pats are the leagues' darlings (just like SF was in the 90's), and they let them get away with murder.

Now I'm the first to say Brady is overrated, but I think it's completely unreasonable to say he'd have zero rings without Belichick and the FO.  You'd have to be crazy to think he's anything less than a really good QB, and it's tough to say he's less than elite.

First of all, you'd have to assume that he was stuck with completely incompetent coaching and GMing his whole tenure, which is a tough thing to expect over a career as long as his.  When the first set of incompetent guys are inevitably fired, you have to assume that up and comers would find that job intriguing since there's a franchise QB there who plays well in the clutch.  Next, you assume he stays in those bad situations instead of hitting the market as a very in-demand commodity at QB, which he'd likely do if it was that bad.  And there's the fact that a franchise QB, especially one on the elite tier like Peyton and Brady, attracts good free agents that want rings, so the supporting cast would likely get better.

I think no matter where Brady goes (assuming he gets a chance to play), he comes away with at least one ring.

Edited by Daniel

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BleedTheClock said:

I cannot even comprehend what you're trying to say to be honest.

In this play  at 6:23, Brady would have got 1st down because he anticipates weak spots, so he could have thrown 1/10th or 2/10th of a second quicker. If it was Brady,  there would be lot of fans who would claim "it is Belichick".

In this play,  at10:05, watch WR #33, typical James White move, Brady would have got 1st down easily. If it was Brady, there would be lot of fans who would claim "it is Belichick".

 

Edited by William Lee

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Jakuvious said:

Their teams have talent, but I do think the biggest impact is how their talent is used. What Belichek's Pats have always been better at than anyone else in the league, IMO, is finding players with niches, or incomplete games, or limited skillsets, and figuring out how to make the system maximize them instead of trying to find players to fit the scheme they want to run. This often results in a Pats team that isn't super talented on paper, but every player on that roster is being used as appropriately as humanly possible, and sometimes a mediocre player being used 100% effectively can actually contribute a more positive performance than a borderline elite player being used 50% effectively. Their gameplanning is kind of the reverse, as well. Some teams and coaches will just decide, we're going to get really good at cover 3, or really good at man, and run that regardless. The Pats instead run what the opposition is bad against. So many of their playoff runs have come down to that. Both the Chiefs and Chargers last year ran one scheme on defense in the entire games, so the Pats just ran concepts to beat the schemes they knew would be run. They also have god-tier OL coaching, which really helps. And a few tent-pole players on the roster like Brady.

So I think they are still somewhat talented, but I think more often than not, they have not been the most talented team in the league for their superbowl winning seasons. It is good, though. Even elite coaching can only do so much.

What I find so interesting is that with how much of a copycat league the NFL is nobody seems to be able to emulate what Belichick does coaching wise. I'm not sure if it comes from a lack of ability, or if there just isn't a mind in the NFL good enough to pull off what Belichick does. 

You'd think a lot more teams would try to take players with incomplete skillsets and optimize there use for certain situations the way the Pats do. Maybe it takes having a head coach who also has GM Control?

Edited by Bolts223

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As far as the is Brady or Belichick more important debate goes: One drafted the other. One made the controversial decision to stick with the QB over an established franchise guy way back when. 

I think the key difference from the two comes with this. You can easily say Brady is the GOAT and probably be right. But the difference in level of play between him and the other great QB's of his era such as Peyton Manning, Brees and Rodgers is not that big.

When it comes to head coaches it is literally Belichick and then everyone else. It's not even a debate, it's not close.

 

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All teams in the NFL have the same level of talent. Coaching and game-planning is everything.

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1 hour ago, JonMcC2018 said:

All teams in the NFL have the same level of talent. Coaching and game-planning is everything.

That’s absolutely not true. Are you really going to tell me the Dolphins and Saints have the same level of talent? It’s not like the NBA with super teams or anything, but rosters are certainly not all equal. 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Bolts223 said:

I think the key difference from the two comes with this. You can easily say Brady is the GOAT and probably be right. But the difference in level of play between him and the other great QB's of his era such as Peyton Manning, Brees and Rodgers is not that big.

If you look at paper, yes, not much difference.

Look the ways they play, well, huge difference. The impact in playoffs is even bigger, as good defense will take away your big plays.

Brady is GOAT because football is a team sport.

Who else can consistently turn average WR into playmakers? who else can turn short n slow WR into playmakers?

Who can score 41 and 31 pts in playoff without deep threats?

Who else can stay on field for 36 min and 39 min so to help his defense?

Who can get rid of the balls so quickly that makes opponent pass rush completely irrelevant so to help his O-line?

ONLY Brady.

Those, are what make Belichick looks like a genius.

Edited by William Lee

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Can we ban a certain someone from making Patriots threads?

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