Is the Patriots roster actually GOOD? Or is it propped up by coaching?

[lancerman]

22 hours ago, NJerseypaint said:

People are going to crap on that statement but they’re is truth to it.

Pats run a modified EP system which is one of the more difficult systems to run if not the most difficult and places a high level on the QB and WR’s intelligence to be in sync because of the different concept options on each play. So basically Brady has to read the defense and also know how each of his receivers will read the defense based on their assignments. 

Beyond that it’s also one of the most versatile and able to adapt and change schemes and offensive emphasis on. Which they’ve relied on Brady to adapt into many times. 

Peyton Manning basically played in the same style offense his whole career. It wasn’t even really that elaborate. Most defensive players will tell you it’s the same 5 or so plays disguised at the line and misdirection. Otherwise it’s a pretty standard offense. It also mandates great WR’s because it’s basically all timing based. Peyton runs it like a well oiled machine, BUT it’s nowhere near as complicated. 

Rodgers is a worse example to compare it to because Rodgers relies more on his physicality and actively bails out of a lot of plays and cuts himself off from anywhere from 25 to 33 percent of the field when he does it. You could never run Brady’s offense if that is your go to inclination. It relies on complete and total mastery of post snap reads and in pocket progressions and description.

So yeah he does have point. To bad most people’s aptitude of QB play boils down to “wow nice throw”

[Bobikus]

It's a solid roster, helped by having one of the best QBs, but their success is primarily due to their coach being BB more so than player talent.

[24isthelaw]

1 minute ago, Bobikus said:

It's a solid roster, helped by having one of the best QBs, but their success is primarily due to their coach being BB more so than player talent.

I think that people subconsciously place a big emphasis skill players and pass rushers when they attempt to define talent.

The 2018 Pats are supposed to be a talentless team that got dragged to winning the SB by smoke and mirrors. But they arguably had the best QB in football. They arguably had the best OL in football. And they arguably had the best secondary in football. Yet we still don't think of them as talented because of that subconscious devaluing of those aspects of the game.

Obviously, Brady and Belichick are the top two reasons in the Pats having had the success they've had overall. But if a team goes to the SB 3 times in a row, and wins 2 of them, they must be pretty damn talented. The players might have talents that we don't measure effectively yet. But they demonstrably have great intrinsic ability to help win football games.

[Elky]

Many of our players may not be the most athletically gifted, but they're extremely smart and follow the Patriot Way to a tee.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Elky

[August4th]

I think great coaching is the main reason the pats haven't slipped up at all in  two decades, but they have filled some loaded rosters during this run too

[William Lee]

1 hour ago, Bobikus said:

It's a solid roster, helped by having one of the best QBs, but their success is primarily due to their coach being BB more so than player talent.

August4th....

So here we go again:

Between 2001 and 2006, Brady was able to score 380 pts without a top tier WR, sometimes not even with a 2nd tier WR.

Now with better receivers, more experience and rule changes, he is able to score 440.

What did Belichick do to improve his offense before 2007? 

Given that Belichick almost never talk to his offense on sidelines, why do you people believe that QB like Peyton, Brees and Rodgers are idiots, like they are not even as smart as Danny Amendola?

Edited June 20, 2019 by William Lee

[game3525]

53 minutes ago, lancerman said:

People are going to crap on that statement but they’re is truth to it.

Pats run a modified EP system which is one of the more difficult systems to run if not the most difficult and places a high level on the QB and WR’s intelligence to be in sync because of the different concept options on each play. So basically Brady has to read the defense and also know how each of his receivers will read the defense based on their assignments. 

Beyond that it’s also one of the most versatile and able to adapt and change schemes and offensive emphasis on. Which they’ve relied on Brady to adapt into many times. 

Peyton Manning basically played in the same style offense his whole career. It wasn’t even really that elaborate. Most defensive players will tell you it’s the same 5 or so plays disguised at the line and misdirection. Otherwise it’s a pretty standard offense. It also mandates great WR’s because it’s basically all timing based. Peyton runs it like a well oiled machine, BUT it’s nowhere near as complicated. 

Rodgers is a worse example to compare it to because Rodgers relies more on his physicality and actively bails out of a lot of plays and cuts himself off from anywhere from 25 to 33 percent of the field when he does it. You could never run Brady’s offense if that is your go to inclination. It relies on complete and total mastery of post snap reads and in pocket progressions and description.

So yeah he does have point. To bad most people’s aptitude of QB play boils down to “wow nice throw”

No, he doesn't.

Every NFL team generally runs the same stuff on offense. The big differences usually comes down terminology. But the actually plays and route concepts are not that different from each other. 

[William Lee]

3 minutes ago, game3525 said:

No, he doesn't.

Every NFL team generally runs the same stuff on offense. The big differences usually comes down terminology. But the actually plays and route concepts are not that different from each other. 

Meaning every (good) QB should be able to learn Pats system if it is Belichick's.

Or you mean no other QB can understand Belichick's terminology, after so many years? the

The offense in 2007 shared the same terminology with the ones before?

Edited June 20, 2019 by William Lee

[NJerseypaint]

1 hour ago, lancerman said:

People are going to crap on that statement but they’re is truth to it.

Pats run a modified EP system which is one of the more difficult systems to run if not the most difficult and places a high level on the QB and WR’s intelligence to be in sync because of the different concept options on each play. So basically Brady has to read the defense and also know how each of his receivers will read the defense based on their assignments. 

Beyond that it’s also one of the most versatile and able to adapt and change schemes and offensive emphasis on. Which they’ve relied on Brady to adapt into many times. 

Peyton Manning basically played in the same style offense his whole career. It wasn’t even really that elaborate. Most defensive players will tell you it’s the same 5 or so plays disguised at the line and misdirection. Otherwise it’s a pretty standard offense. It also mandates great WR’s because it’s basically all timing based. Peyton runs it like a well oiled machine, BUT it’s nowhere near as complicated. 

Rodgers is a worse example to compare it to because Rodgers relies more on his physicality and actively bails out of a lot of plays and cuts himself off from anywhere from 25 to 33 percent of the field when he does it. You could never run Brady’s offense if that is your go to inclination. It relies on complete and total mastery of post snap reads and in pocket progressions and description.

So yeah he does have point. To bad most people’s aptitude of QB play boils down to “wow nice throw”

But how do you make the logical leap from "Peyton and Rodgers don't run Brady's system" to "Peyton and Rodgers couldn't/can't run Brady's system, because it's too hard from them"? Maybe, and I know this is a big stretch, but maybe they each just like their own system better? (or maybe even the coaches do)

 

[BleedTheClock]

18 hours ago, William Lee said:

In this play  at 6:23, Brady would have got 1st down because he anticipates weak spots, so he could have thrown 1/10th or 2/10th of a second quicker. If it was Brady,  there would be lot of fans who would claim "it is Belichick".

Your'e missing the point. I didn't even watch the video. The fact is, Belichick can be an elite coach and Brady can be an elite QB. What are you not grasping about this? It doesn't have to be one or the other. I simply cannot understand the way your mind works.

[BleedTheClock]

49 minutes ago, William Lee said:

Meaning every (good) QB should be able to learn Pats system if it is Belichick's.

Other QB's have had success running the Pats offense dude. Not Brady level success obviously, but it's not like the other QB's were abominations. Remember Jimmy Garoppolo? Remember Matt Cassel?

So when Brady retires and the next QB comes in and does well are you going to eat crow?
Spoiler: you won't be posting here that long.

[BleedTheClock]

55 minutes ago, William Lee said:

Given that Belichick almost never talk to his offense on sidelines, why do you people believe that QB like Peyton, Brees and Rodgers are idiots, like they are not even as smart as Danny Amendola?

Can you please explain this statement? I've seen you spew it out a few times and I think I speak for everyone else here when we say that it makes no sense. I can't even comprehend the argument you're trying to piece together.

[Daniel]

2 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

So when Brady retires and the next QB comes in and does well are you going to eat crow?
Spoiler: you won't be posting here that long.

What Belichick does post-Brady will define the career of both.  If Brady retires and the next QB plays comparably, it'll sink Brady's legacy forever.  If Belichick struggles, it'll do the opposite.

I expect that there'll be success, just less consistently because like you said, they can both be very good.

I do think trying to argue the point with him is a big waste of time though.  Just let him make his arguments that no one's listening to and move on to other points of discussion.

[BleedTheClock]

1 minute ago, Daniel said:

I do think trying to argue the point with him is a big waste of time though.  Just let him make his arguments that no one's listening to and move on to other points of discussion.

You're right. I just hope he is ashamed of himself when he goes to sleep at night, that's all.

[SBLIII]

11 minutes ago, Daniel said:

  If Brady retires and the next QB plays comparably, it'll sink Brady's legacy forever. 

I hope this will happen.