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boratt

The offseason DL thread

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Posted (edited)

https://www.packers.com/news/tyler-lancaster-staying-on-a-path-of-improvement

 

I was going to add this to the unofficial Lancaster thread (the keke thread.) But it might be nice to have a general DL thread so we don’t hijack the keke thread. 

 

But continuing on what we were talking about there. It looks like he’s really pushing himself to become more of a pass rusher. Even if he just ends up decent as a pass rusher, that might be good enough if he takes yet another step forward as a run player. Also, Will be cool to see him and Clark together on short yardage!

Edited by boratt

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“If I said, ‘Hey, Tyler, you need to lose 20 pounds,’ he would do it tomorrow, right? If I said, ‘You need to put on 30 pounds,’ he would do it tomorrow. He’s that kid,” Montgomery said. “If I tell him how to do something a certain way, it’s going to kill him until he does it right. That’s just his mindset.

His next step is to get after the passer more and improve on the four QB pressures and two QB hits from a year ago. So during workouts in the spring he focused on what he called “twitchiness off the ball,” to get a half-step quicker than the interior linemen across from him."

 

The above comment is consistent with the reviews we got from BobGray in terms of Lancaster being a half step too slow off the snap last year.

 

 

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Packers are 3 deep across the DL going into 2019

1-tech  Clark, Lancaster, Daniels
3-tech  Daniels, Adams, Gary, ZSmith
5-tech  Lowry, Keke, Brown

Not sure if Looney has a future in Titletown

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From PackersWire

The Packers defensive coordinator places a premium on rushing the passer from the inside.

“That’s where it starts. It starts up front. People talk about the exterior pass rush, I think the interior pass rush is as important or maybe potentially more important,” Pettine said Thursday. “If you can be dominant inside, I think that has a ripple effect throughout your defense.”

The idea stems from improvements made by offenses in terms of taking away edge pass-rush. Teams can always chip an edge rusher, assign double teams or slide protection one way or another, but a strong rusher from the inside is harder to take away. Almost always, at least one interior rusher will face a single blocker.

“It’s much easier to negate an edge pass rusher than it is an inside dominant guy. You can force offenses to block them one-on-one,” Pettine said.
“Offenses have gotten very good at negating edge rushers.”

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I don't look as closely as I should at who is where on the D line through the season, but here is my take on positions after cutdown. The positions for each player have to be somewhat fluid to account for all the variations Pettine might use. DE(4) refers to only being a DE in 4 man fronts.

NT/DT K.Clark
NT/DT T.Lancaster
NT/DT/DE M.Daniels
NT/DT/DE M. Adams
DT/DE D.Lowry
DT/DE/Edge Z.Smith
DT/DE/Edge R.Gary
DE(4)/Edge P.Smith
Edge K.Fackrell
Edge Just one of: Donnerson or Gilbert or Roberts

Total = 10.

Add 4 ILBs, 10/11 DBs and maybe one extra guy on DL or Edge for a total of 24/25 spots on defense.

Do you think in my list above there is anyone marked down for a position they will virtually never play ? For example, I listed K.Clark as NT/ DT - could you ever see K.Clark playing DT next to T.Lancaster or M.Adams (or even M.Daniels) at NT ? How about Preston Smith as DE in a 3 man front ?

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2 hours ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

I don't look as closely as I should at who is where on the D line through the season, but here is my take on positions after cutdown. The positions for each player have to be somewhat fluid to account for all the variations Pettine might use. DE(4) refers to only being a DE in 4 man fronts.

NT/DT K.Clark
NT/DT T.Lancaster
NT/DT/DE M.Daniels
NT/DT/DE M. Adams
DT/DE D.Lowry
DT/DE/Edge Z.Smith
DT/DE/Edge R.Gary
DE(4)/Edge P.Smith
Edge K.Fackrell
Edge Just one of: Donnerson or Gilbert or Roberts

Total = 10.

Add 4 ILBs, 10/11 DBs and maybe one extra guy on DL or Edge for a total of 24/25 spots on defense.

Do you think in my list above there is anyone marked down for a position they will virtually never play ? For example, I listed K.Clark as NT/ DT - could you ever see K.Clark playing DT next to T.Lancaster or M.Adams (or even M.Daniels) at NT ? How about Preston Smith as DE in a 3 man front ?

I hope it's Donnerson who maybe cashes in on some of that athletic ability making it. I think Keke makes the team somehow as well. I also see Fackrell playing some ILB so I'm thinking we only keep 3 of those PLUS Fackrell. 

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I could see Clark playing some DT this year. Especially if an injury happens to Daniels or Lowry and Lancaster becomes one of our better rotational guys.

Lancaster NT / Clark DT would be more effective imo than the other way around.

Clark is the best 0-5 tech on our team. Any position. 

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16 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

Packers are 3 deep across the DL going into 2019

1-tech  Clark, Lancaster, Daniels
3-tech  Daniels, Adams, Gary, ZSmith
5-tech  Lowry, Keke, Brown

Not sure if Looney has a future in Titletown

I am not sure that 3 deep is all that special outside of Clark.  It has some potential with the developmental picks in Adams, Keke, Gary and the additions of ZSmith.  Putting some of those players down is more representative of their 3rd down/pass rush roles.  Need to get to that down and distance first or it won't matter much.

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4 minutes ago, squire12 said:

I am not sure that 3 deep is all that special outside of Clark.

Packers won a Super Bowl with the DL crew below and I'm not sure they were any more "special" outside of BJ Raji
Opinions vary, but I'd give a slight nod to the 2019 crew

1-Tech    Raji, Pickett, H.Green

3-Tech   Jenkins, Pickett, Mike Neal

5-Tech   CJ Wilson, Mike Montgomery, Jarius Wynn

 

( Johnny Jolly was sizzurp suspended)

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2 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

Packers won a Super Bowl with the DL crew below and I'm not sure they were any more "special" outside of BJ Raji
Opinions vary, but I'd give a slight nod to the 2019 crew

1-Tech    Raji, Pickett, H.Green

3-Tech   Jenkins, Pickett, Mike Neal

5-Tech   CJ Wilson, Mike Montgomery, Jarius Wynn

 

( Johnny Jolly was sizzurp suspended)

He was absolutely special! A complete stud! 

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5 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

Packers won a Super Bowl with the DL crew below and I'm not sure they were any more "special" outside of BJ Raji
Opinions vary, but I'd give a slight nod to the 2019 crew

1-Tech    Raji, Pickett, H.Green

3-Tech   Jenkins, Pickett, Mike Neal

5-Tech   CJ Wilson, Mike Montgomery, Jarius Wynn

 

( Johnny Jolly was sizzurp suspended)

True....that GB team also had prime Charles Woodson, Nick Collins.  2 all pro level players and 1 DPOY.  Tramon Williams and Sam Shields at the CB.  That secondary far outclasses the current group.  

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Posted (edited)

 

49 minutes ago, squire12 said:

True....that GB team also had prime Charles Woodson, Nick Collins.  2 all pro level players and 1 DPOY.  Tramon Williams and Sam Shields at the CB.  That secondary far outclasses the current group.  

This years front 7 looks stronger. The secondary probably won’t be as good as that secondary. Taking an optimistic look at Alexander, King, Savage and Amos, they have a chance to be great and have a good shot at being really good. The secondary is my most intriguing group in TC. On defense, I’m interested in seeing Gary and Lancaster too. 

 

Everything fell together just right in 2010. Let’s hope for some of that here!

Edited by boratt

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Pickett was extremely good at controlling the interior.  Very underrated guy.  I'm not sure that Clark does it any better than Pickett did it back then.  And maybe not even quite as good yet.  That's how good I thought Pickett was.

On that team, I also thought that Jenkins was on the downslide that year.  I don't recall him doing a whole lot against the run.  He'd flash in the pass rush situations, but that was about it.  More or less I think that year he was living off of a past reputation.  One that got him paid a few times over once he left GB.  

That being said...I'll take that DL over the one we have right now.  That could change if a few things happen...like Adams actually developing and Daniels getting back to his old self.

I think Lancaster is what he is...and that is perfectly fine.  It's Adams that needs to elevate to get to a Lancaster level of play.  

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9 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

That being said...I'll take that DL over the one we have right now.

That DL was built for 2010 football, not sure how they would fare in 2019. And remember, GB had the same issue then as now - Packers didn't want to take Raji's quickness off the NT spot, so they played Pickett at DE and he was pretty much useless vs the pass. That's part of why teams killed the Packers with play action passes on 1st down and its why GB changed the DL specs from Full Beef to Athletic Beef going forward

I'll take the 2019 DL in 2019 over the 2010 version...

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9 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

That DL was built for 2010 football, not sure how they would fare in 2019. And remember, GB had the same issue then as now - Packers didn't want to take Raji's quickness off the NT spot, so they played Pickett at DE and he was pretty much useless vs the pass. That's part of why teams killed the Packers with play action passes on 1st down and its why GB changed the DL specs from Full Beef to Athletic Beef going forward

I'll take the 2019 DL in 2019 over the 2010 version...

Very true about Pickett pass rush.  To say there was "none" might be giving him a little more credit than he deserved!

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