The offseason DL thread

[Joe]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

That being said...I'll take that DL over the one we have right now.  That could change if a few things happen...like Adams actually developing and Daniels getting back to his old self.

I think Lancaster is what he is...and that is perfectly fine.  It's Adams that needs to elevate to get to a Lancaster level of play.  

I agree. We need to start thinking about long-term investments along that line, especially if Adams doesn't pan out in particular. We've discussed the tricky situation with Daniels ad nauseum and we know what we have in Clark and Lancaster. It's the rest of the guys that concern me. Lowry's a great rotational guy and occasionally flashes, but we need a bonafide starter opposite Clark which I don't think we have. It sounds like KeKe will be a better pro than college player so we'll see where that goes, but I think most of us here would feel a bit more comfortable if a higher pick was used along the DL next year.

[MacReady]

It's okay, DL will be our first round pick in this next draft after every single person here keeps saying, "It's time to go offense." 

 

[Argus]

5 hours ago, vegas492 said:

Pickett was extremely good at controlling the interior.  Very underrated guy.  I'm not sure that Clark does it any better than Pickett did it back then.  And maybe not even quite as good yet.  That's how good I thought Pickett was.

On that team, I also thought that Jenkins was on the downslide that year.  I don't recall him doing a whole lot against the run.  He'd flash in the pass rush situations, but that was about it.  More or less I think that year he was living off of a past reputation.  One that got him paid a few times over once he left GB.  

That being said...I'll take that DL over the one we have right now.  That could change if a few things happen...like Adams actually developing and Daniels getting back to his old self.

I think Lancaster is what he is...and that is perfectly fine.  It's Adams that needs to elevate to get to a Lancaster level of play.  

If memory serves me correctly, I don't think Jenkins even played in the Super Bowl either.

[snackattack]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

If memory serves me correctly, I don't think Jenkins even played in the Super Bowl either.

It did not.

Jenkins was pretty good as a rusher, but for a few years it always seemed like his play deteriorated as the year went on, even after he left Green Bay. I bet if you took his stats from his first four games of 2009-2012 you would have HOF level production.

edit- not quite HOF level, but his first four games of 2009-2011 he averaged 1.2 sacks per game. Pretty good considering IDLs werent racking up massive sack numbers in those days

Edited June 24, 2019 by snackattack

[boratt]

Clark, Daniels, Lowry, Lancaster, Zadarius and Gary make for a decent DL rotation this year. If keke or Adams step up, we’re in really good shape.

 

How the three young unknowns play and whether we resign Daniels will determine how bad we need DL next year. 

[vegas492]

I don't see a reason to re-up Daniels.  Take the younger, less expensive guy in Lowry who is solid.  Then draft a DL or two to develop.  And pray that the light goes on for Adams, though I fear that may not happen.

Seriously, I think when you have one stud (Clark) you just need two above average dudes next to him and another developmental player or two to round out that squad.

When you pay a QB as much as we do, you really can't afford to pay too many of those guys.  And we invested heavily on the edge.

[skibrett15]

Agree that we don't resign Daniels.  Don't agree that Lowry is in any way a viable replacement.

Gary and Za'Darius are viable sub rushers, so you are really looking at 2 starting bigs and 2 backups in most cases outside of short yardage.

[MrBobGray]

I'm higher on this group than I was a few weeks ago.  Few things I'd throw in just off what is already being discussed:

• Adams has a better chance than people are giving him.  He's put some good film out there at times, and the effort is there.  His is a style of DL play I'm not a huge fan of personally, but he has some really nice qualities.  Has a good hump move, has nice lateral quickness and can sync his hands and feet at times, just needs some work.  He's definitely a work in progress, but he does flash on film.  He's the kind of guy you notice when you're watching someone else, which is a positive sign.  
• Lancaster is extremely legit.  Was an absolute bully in the run game last year.  Big brute of a NT, but plays with great effort and urgency too.  He's quicker than your usual undrafted run-stuffer too; Lancaster is quietly a guy with some solid measurables that show up on tape.  His pro-day numbers were better than Clark's combine numbers in every category except VJ, where Clark bested him by 1.5".  Now, presumably I don't have to say this, but those numbers aren't really comparable; Clark was 3 years younger and pro-day numbers are very often a great deal kinder to the player.  But the major point is that Lancaster isn't just an old-school, big wall of a man type NT.  That's most of his game honestly, he'd prefer to bench a guy into the QB than go around him, but he can move and that means there's still some upside to dig out.
• I was wrong about Lowry, which I think I mentioned then too.  He's a legit 6th man type DE; the kind of guy you don't want starting but love having because his skill set can open up a lot of fun things.  There's not a lot of DT/DE hybrids as quick as he is at scale, and his effort is top notch.  I do wish he had arms that actually matched his frame (31" arms at 6'6", oof) because his power game is pretty lacking as it is.  But as a do it all type that you can throw in wherever, he's a great guy to have.
• I doubt they re-sign Daniels.  I love the guy, but his game was always going to suffer with age and he's nearing the cliff.  Normally you'd consider what he brings as an attitude guy and team leader, but Z.Smith looks tapped to take on that role and he'll do well with it.  Big Mike will always live in my heart, but this is probably his last hurrah in Green Bay.
• I'm not a big fan of Keke as an every down guy right now, I think he's a long way off, but his pass rush game may play early on if they can find a spot for him.  Think they had him doing too much and playing too many snaps in college, and I'd like to see the Packers let him just focus on one or two things while he red-shirts this year.
• I haven't completely counted Looney out to be honest.  This is almost certainly a mistake, but truth be told I think there's a player buried in there.  He's undersized, but a super high energy rusher and he likes to use his hands.  Doesn't always get a lot out of them, but he's aggressive and quick and he wants to hit ya.  He flashed a little bit of ability to close out the year.  Understand I'd put him in that 5% group, as in a 5% chance he develops in to anything, but I do think he has the requisite level of talent to play in the league.  Just needs soooooo much work to do anything with it.
• Also as noted, Gary/Smith/Smith will probably all play inside a good amount as well, Z.Smith and Gary especially.  I'm so interested to see what they do with Gary this year.  His future depends so much on his development, but for 2019 specifically he's such a fun, odd chess piece to have right now.  Super high energy, absurd athlete, will do literally anything you ask him; who wouldn't want one of those types of players to just put in spots and see what happens?  He needs a ton of refinement on his technique work, need to get him using hands with his feet and in an actual sequence, but good lord is he going to be a huge problem on stunts and delayed rushes where they can get him clean lanes.  Plus I guarantee he ends at least one career on an outside run this year.  Not in the injury sense, but in the "I need to rethink my life choices" sense.  He's Perry with an attitude when they run at him.

[Joe]

11 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

• I'm not a big fan of Keke as an every down guy right now, I think he's a long way off, but his pass rush game may play early on if they can find a spot for him.  Think they had him doing too much and playing too many snaps in college, and I'd like to see the Packers let him just focus on one or two things while he red-shirts this year.

I don't think Keke was drafted to be a starter. It'd be nice for him to evolve into that kind of player, but I think he's going to be an above average role player.

[Norm]

@MrBobGray

Heh, after your great write up on Jones. Thanks again. I was most curious about Adams. I'm glad to at least hear you saw some things out of him that were positive. I'm just not into as much at all anymore and I barely knew he existed unless someone said something on the game threads lol

Edited June 25, 2019 by Norm

[Shanedorf]

Kenny Clark excited about Montravius Adams and his development

From PackersWire

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2019/07/02/kenny-clark-excited-about-offseason-of-packers-dl-montravius-adams/

“On defense, I’ll say Montravius. I think he had a really good OTAs,” Clark said. “I think he has a really good understanding of what’s going on, and his mentality and how he’s been going about things and the work he’s been putting in. I’m excited to see how he does this year.” 

 

 

 

[Shanedorf]

More on M. Adams via Packers Wire and Ben Fennell with a couple of cut ups

Packers defensive line coach Jerry Montgomery can see the progress stacking year after year.

“He was a lot different player last year than he was the year before, so he’s taking the right steps,” Montgomery said during OTAs in May. “The guy came back in tremendous shape, he looks a lot different body-wise than he did a year ago. He’s working every day. Is he there? No, but neither is anybody else this time of year. But he’s a lot further along today than he was last year at this time.”

 

https://twitter.com/BenFennell_NFL/status/1146068285428916226/video/1

[boratt]

I do think Daniels will be a beast this year. But the positive talk about montravius, oh man, that’s exciting for the depth this year and for the long term with Daniels likely moving on. Adams and Lowry being quality veteran depth will be very helpful next to Clark. It will allow us to keep bringing in developmental talent and but not feel undermanned. 

 

If Adams turns out to be a quality player this year, man, our depth along the line, including edge is ridiculous. We’ll be one of the leagues best 4th quarter teams and we can absorb an injury or two. 

Edited July 2, 2019 by boratt

[Norm]

I keep forgetting Adams even exists until I see him mentioned here lol. It almost feels like he was cut

[Cakeshoppe]

26 minutes ago, Norm said:

I keep forgetting Adams even exists until I see him mentioned here lol. It almost feels like he was cut

I swear there were like 2 or 3 years where I was surprised every time I saw Dmitri Goodson’s name. I didn’t even hate him, In my mind he had just been released long ago.