YogiBiz Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) Watched some more of Hayes. He is super interesting, but his lack of want to do things with his right hand is concerning. He is a heady defender, he just lacks lateral and vertical movement skills. If he his wingspan was a few inches shorter, he would be a bad on-ball defender. He is super tight in his hips (i.e. changes directions really badly); however, he does play screens very well. Really good passer though. If LaMelo wasn't in the draft, he would be the best pure passer by a mile. There is a lot to like about Hayes, but his swing traits are his right hand and his shooting. He will likely become a slightly better athlete in the NBA, but he'll be average at best athletically. He's going to have a hard time getting his shots against NBA defenders, although he showed off some craftiness which makes me think he has it in him. He's at least over taken Riller in my PG top 5. On 6/8/2020 at 12:12 AM, sshle_ said: What's this talk about Edwards not being able to shoot...his problem is he shoots everything. He shot 29% On nearly 8 attempts a game. Albeit, he played much better as an off-ball scorer than he did when creating for himself (Hitting 44.7% of his true C/S jumpers (17/38)). He is a high-end #2 option on a contending team, that needs to improve his on ball scoring efficiency to be considered a #1 option. He's going to be at his best when playing off a lead playmaker. To be successful, he needs to be around a trove of shooters (until his 3% shoots up). His shot selection is terrible, but he has the skill set to make every shot you could want. Watched some more Haliburton and I am super impressed. He's taken the number 1 PG spot for me. He fits so well with RJ. I watched some Kira Lewis. I am extremely impressed by him. Super speed is his default setting. My current top 30 is Anthony Edwards Tyrese Haliburton James Wiseman Devin Vassell Cole Anthony Tyrese Maxey Nico Mannion Deni Avidija Obi Toppin Killian Hayes Kira Lewis Jr. Onyeka Okongwu LaMelo Ball Jaden McDaniels Aleksej Pokusevski Daniel Oturu Tyler Bey RJ Hampton Precious Achiuwa Isaiah Stewert Josh Green Aaron Nesmith Vernon Carey Jr. Jay Scrubb Saddiq Bey Elijah Hughes Robert Woodard II Jahmius Ramsey Jalen Smith Reggie Perry Edited June 9, 2020 by YogiBiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 On 6/9/2020 at 2:58 PM, YogiBiz said: Watched some more of Hayes. He is super interesting, but his lack of want to do things with his right hand is concerning. He is a heady defender, he just lacks lateral and vertical movement skills. If he his wingspan was a few inches shorter, he would be a bad on-ball defender. He is super tight in his hips (i.e. changes directions really badly); however, he does play screens very well. Really good passer though. If LaMelo wasn't in the draft, he would be the best pure passer by a mile. There is a lot to like about Hayes, but his swing traits are his right hand and his shooting. He will likely become a slightly better athlete in the NBA, but he'll be average at best athletically. He's going to have a hard time getting his shots against NBA defenders, although he showed off some craftiness which makes me think he has it in him. He's at least over taken Riller in my PG top 5. He shot 29% On nearly 8 attempts a game. Albeit, he played much better as an off-ball scorer than he did when creating for himself (Hitting 44.7% of his true C/S jumpers (17/38)). He is a high-end #2 option on a contending team, that needs to improve his on ball scoring efficiency to be considered a #1 option. He's going to be at his best when playing off a lead playmaker. To be successful, he needs to be around a trove of shooters (until his 3% shoots up). His shot selection is terrible, but he has the skill set to make every shot you could want. Watched some more Haliburton and I am super impressed. He's taken the number 1 PG spot for me. He fits so well with RJ. I watched some Kira Lewis. I am extremely impressed by him. Super speed is his default setting. My current top 30 is Anthony Edwards Tyrese Haliburton James Wiseman Devin Vassell Cole Anthony Tyrese Maxey Nico Mannion Deni Avidija Obi Toppin Killian Hayes Kira Lewis Jr. Onyeka Okongwu LaMelo Ball Jaden McDaniels Aleksej Pokusevski Daniel Oturu Tyler Bey RJ Hampton Precious Achiuwa Isaiah Stewert Josh Green Aaron Nesmith Vernon Carey Jr. Jay Scrubb Saddiq Bey Elijah Hughes Robert Woodard II Jahmius Ramsey Jalen Smith Reggie Perry Where is Isaac Okoro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrawkcab321 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 22 hours ago, BleedTheClock said: Where is Isaac Okoro? 3 and D without the 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrawkcab321 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 I still like ball the most in this draft. His length allows him to defend 1-3 once his body matures. His shot isn’t there yet but I like his mechanics. I think he can get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 6 hours ago, sdrawkcab321 said: I still like ball the most in this draft. His length allows him to defend 1-3 once his body matures. His shot isn’t there yet but I like his mechanics. I think he can get there. Ball and defense are two words that don't go together. He's a turnstile on D. His side to side movement is non-existent and his feet drag on D. He's never going to be able to defend at the pro level. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger murdock Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 58 minutes ago, beekay414 said: Ball and defense are two words that don't go together. He's a turnstile on D. His side to side movement is non-existent and his feet drag on D. He's never going to be able to defend at the pro level. Its an effort thing. Someone with his size and athleticism is an easy projection to be at least a decent projection if he works at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 17 minutes ago, roger murdock said: Its an effort thing. Someone with his size and athleticism is an easy projection to be at least a decent projection if he works at it. He's not the athlete you think he is, that's for sure. He doesn't have the side to side ability to be a plus or even average defender. It all banks on his length and understanding to be a successful/average defender, not his athleticism. He's never going to be able to stay in front of NBA level guards. He can't even due it in the NBL ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 I just don't get the infatuation with Ball. He's not a good basketball player at all. He can't shoot and can't defend. He's not going to be good, folks. I'm taking Cole Anthony 100x out of 100 over LaMelo and not even thinking twice about it. Ball's not even a top 5 guard in this draft, let alone a top 5 overall talent. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YogiBiz Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 8 hours ago, beekay414 said: I just don't get the infatuation with Ball. He's not a good basketball player at all. He can't shoot and can't defend. He's not going to be good, folks. I'm taking Cole Anthony 100x out of 100 over LaMelo and not even thinking twice about it. Ball's not even a top 5 guard in this draft, let alone a top 5 overall talent. That's what I've been preaching. For someone who loves to shoot, he sure has an allergic reaction to making shots. Also lets not forget, he was tied for 12th tallest player in the NBL. A lot of times, he was the tallest player on the court. He has issues finishing against length. Just look how awfully he played when he played against the great stalwarts Andre Bogut and Miles Plumlee. He couldn't finish on MILES FREAKING PLUMLEE. Granted I probably couldn't either, but I am not the one being paid millions to score on people that Miles couldn't beat out in the NBA. Also his shot is ugly, and no decent NBA player (even the bad defenders) will let him pull that ugly shot without a contest. Who is buying his shot even remotely? At best he is Rajon Rando that you have to hide on Defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullsandBroncos Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 On 6/15/2020 at 7:51 AM, YogiBiz said: That's what I've been preaching. For someone who loves to shoot, he sure has an allergic reaction to making shots. Also lets not forget, he was tied for 12th tallest player in the NBL. A lot of times, he was the tallest player on the court. He has issues finishing against length. Just look how awfully he played when he played against the great stalwarts Andre Bogut and Miles Plumlee. He couldn't finish on MILES FREAKING PLUMLEE. Granted I probably couldn't either, but I am not the one being paid millions to score on people that Miles couldn't beat out in the NBA. Also his shot is ugly, and no decent NBA player (even the bad defenders) will let him pull that ugly shot without a contest. Who is buying his shot even remotely? At best he is Rajon Rando that you have to hide on Defense. Yeah and at least Rondo was a triple double machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsujin Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 On 6/9/2020 at 2:58 PM, YogiBiz said: My current top 30 is 4. Devin Vassell This guy gets it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 On 6/14/2020 at 3:52 PM, sdrawkcab321 said: 3 and D without the 3 I don't think his shot is broken though. He wasn't terrible from 3 point range and his shooting motion is smooth. I feel like he's a dead ringer for Iguodala when he was coming out. Iggy didn't really have a shot in college either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YogiBiz Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 (edited) On 6/16/2020 at 9:27 PM, BullsandBroncos said: Yeah and at least Rondo was a triple double machine. The only reason Rondo was allowed the 33+ Minutes a game he was with Boston, is because he could play defense. Doc never had to hide him for the team to be successful. You will have to hide LaMelo. I don't think he will be able to play defense at an average level in the NBA for a while. Also Rando could finish on Miles Plumlee. 17 hours ago, BleedTheClock said: I don't think his shot is broken though. He wasn't terrible from 3 point range and his shooting motion is smooth. I feel like he's a dead ringer for Iguodala when he was coming out. Iggy didn't really have a shot in college either. It is though. The only consistent part of his form, is that is ugly as heck. Either his right leg is lined up with the basket (which helps ease the mess in his upper body's form), or that leg isn't lined up or his right knee is kicked inwards or his foot is pocking into a random direction. His upper body is hideous when shooting. He always thumbs the basketball too which doesn't help his inconsistent right arm. It's either under the ball, poked out all the way, or somewhere in between. I just don't like Okoro. I've seen some people comparing him to Jimmy Butler, and that is laughable. Iggy was stat sheet stuffer in Philly, but Philly only got to 2 winning seasons out of it (One was during the Lockout season). Iggy's most successful stretch was as a role player for the Warriors dynasty. Okoro is a role player, and is missing a key function of his role. I also don't think Okoro is as good a passer as Iggy was. Turns the ball over too much to be relied on as a secondary playmaker. On 6/16/2020 at 9:49 PM, Tetsujin said: This guy gets it. Vassell is just so good. He's a heady passer as well with the basic handles to evolve into an off the bounce threat. I love him. Hope the LaMelo and Anthony are taken before the Knicks pick and just get him and VanVleet. Edited June 18, 2020 by YogiBiz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsujin Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 25 minutes ago, YogiBiz said: Vassell is just so good. He's a heady passer as well with the basic handles to evolve into an off the bounce threat. I love him. Hope the LaMelo and Anthony are taken before the Knicks pick and just get him and VanVleet. The past couple of months, the word has gotten out about him in the NBA Draft community. He used to be mocked behind Patrick Williams awhile back, but DV is so much better, IMO. I was hoping Williams would stay 1 more year to improve his stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YogiBiz Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 7 minutes ago, Tetsujin said: The past couple of months, the word has gotten out about him in the NBA Draft community. He used to be mocked behind Patrick Williams awhile back, but DV is so much better, IMO. I was hoping Williams would stay 1 more year to improve his stock. I like PW athleticism, Vassell is just better in all the roles. Williams is just an inch taller and thirty pounds heavier, but can't shoot or pass as well. I think Vassell has the basis to become more than just a role player like Williams. If he can improve his handles, he can be a frightening two-way player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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