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dll2000

Good points on Pagano

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McGinnest makes some good points here.  Allow me to elaborate a bit.

Fangio plays a lot of bend, but don't break D.  End goal of keeping you out of end zone or holding you to field goals.  He focuses on assignment and fundamentals.   It works if done well and Fangio did it better than most. 

He doesnt blitz much although he started a lot more later last season.  He doesnt stem (shift d linemen during cadence).  

Plusses: Guys know their jobs and focus on technique.  Very rarely will someone be out of position or a coverage or assignment blown.  Why? Because scheme is relatively simple and straight forward with a huge emphasis on do your assignment to perfection.  

Minuses: Opposing O line know exactly who to block so you arent pressuring O linemen to blow assignments and QBs to call false protections.  Coverage is also more easily ascertainable for QBs. 

Fangio will trick you by putting OLBs in coverage and blitzing ILB or safety, but its usually more of a timing blitz than guys swapping gaps often. Though again he finally started more last year.   More often he will either simply send more than you have to protect or drop more than you expect to drop.  More often the latter. 

People poo poo simple, but simple and effective works as Fangio's career attests.

Pagano is much more aggressive.  He will stem the d line and he will blitz from anywhere with guys swapping gaps or over loading a side. 

The downside of this is you can give up a chunk play or even a long TD wth guys caught out of position.

The upside is you are putting a ton of pressure on offense to execute their assignements across the board properly not just beat their individual match ups.  It only takes one blown block often to screw up a play and put you behind sticks on down and distance or create a turn over. 

Neither way is inherently better than the other, but the second is much more fun to watch. 

I will also say that when you are very aggressive you can have games where you absolutley dominate and games where a coach has you figured and you get dominated. 

That can happen with Fangio's style too with a patient game plan like we saw in Miami game.  An offense who is willing to take what you give them and not get frustrated.  It wears you down. 

I think big key with Bears and I hope Pagano gets it is he has unique OLBs.  Mack needs to go forward every play - simple.  Best in game at it.

Floyd is your wild card.  You need to drop him in zone coverage and send a LB.  Send him in combos with DL and into different gaps. Send him and a LB together.  Do that and you have a special player.  Don't just straight rush him from outside often as that is where he becomes average to below average.

Quite frankly Fangio style works well with any talent level relatively speaking.  Pagano style will often get whooped with poor talent.  BUT with good talent Pagano's style really cam shine and that is what we have. 

Going to be fun. 

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Let me add that I hope Pagano realizes he has a unique blitzing talent in Roquan Smith.  I said that last year after draft after watching his GA tape.  

I dont think Fangio figured it out until near end of season.  

His ability to avoid blocks and close on football is what makes him special.  If a guy can square him up he will get put on his butt, but if he has a little bit of space you are toast. 

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Posted (edited)

Sounds as if in Chuck Pagano we're gonna get a bit more of a Buddy Ryan kind of an approach based on creating confusion and pressure to cause mistakes and turnovers.  He has the personnel to do it with so why not?

I know Bears fans would love to see another defense like the '85 version just dominating opponents all game long.  A defense like that coupled with Nagy's offensive schemes would make us a very tough match up across the board.

Edited by soulman

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32 minutes ago, soulman said:

Sounds as if in Chuck Pagano we're gonna get a bit more of a Buddy Ryan kind of an approach based on putting creating confusion and pressure to cause mistakes and turnovers.  He has the personnel to do it with so why not?

I know Bears fans would love to see another defense like the '85 version just dominating opponents all game long.  A defense like that coupled with Nagy's offensive schemes would make us a very tough match up across the board.

I think you'll see a few more shoot outs or bigger scores on both sides.  Its what that style creates.

Fangio much more about slowing down game and keeping it competitive.   But that game is played inside 20s.  Pagano plays game between 20s more.

Pagano will get you field position and turn overs, but he will give up quick scores and big plays.  Last year Fangio's high volume of turnovers was more about great individual plays than scheme.  

If you could theoretically play with exact same guys at same age, health, etc. for 5 years Pagano would generate more turnovers and 3 and outs over that span than Fangio, but Fangio would give up far fewer points. 

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24 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I think you'll see a few more shoot outs or bigger scores on both sides.  Its what that style creates.

Fangio much more about slowing down game and keeping it competitive.   But that game is played inside 20s.  Pagano plays game between 20s more.

Pagano will get you field position and turn overs, but he will give up quick scores and big plays.  Last year Fangio's high volume of turnovers was more about great individual plays than scheme.  

If you could theoretically play with exact same guys at same age, health, etc. for 5 years Pagano would generate more turnovers and 3 and outs over that span than Fangio, but Fangio would give up far fewer points. 

One advantage Pagano should also have is an ability to play it either way.

With Mack and that DL he can still rush just four knowing he'll still be able to generate pressure and get hits and sacks and dare QBs to pass against a secondary full of ball hawks and LBs who can cover as well.

Skrine and Smith can also be his wild card rushers since both are very good running delayed blitzes.

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Willie pretty much echoed what we said when the Pagano talks kicked off.

 

Fangio did have a simple defense (much like how Lovie ran a simple defense, but the players mastered it), but they predicated on having high-level playmakers. It was the same in SF for him as here in Chicago. Pagano will be looking to move Mack and Floyd around a bit more, we won't have to rely on Hicks and Mack to break the play down. Pagano will scheme players into spots. It will allow for a lot of big plays but we have to be realistic, there will be more broken plays too. This is kind of mirroring the Amos vs HHCD. Amos will be steady and give you more consistent play, but HHCD definitely can make more big plays to help the team out.

 

Regardless of the scheme, we have two monsters in Hicks and Goldman who are elite vs the run, and Goldman has spurts where he looks dominant in the pass game (I still think he gets wore out from so many reps, Hicks is a damn freak). You have the uber-EDGE in Mack, and an elite athlete who plays opposite of him. Smith will be in talks of DPOY for years IMO, DT is still a top #2 ILB, Fuller/Amukamara is a top tandem, EJax looks like he is going to be the highest paid S soon, etc. Then you have wildcard guys like RRH and Nichols who both had points where they looked stellar, Bullard should have been a one-gapping 3T from the start like we all said, so this may be his chance to do well. Pagano has the most well-stocked pantry in the NFL. Matching last year's defense is unlikely and an unfair demand, but barring major injuries the Bears should at MINIMUM be a top 5 IMO. That is a damn high bar that is set in itself too. 

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