You Can Do Everything Right and Be Wrong

[Money]

You scout the player. You see the measurables. You evaluate the character. You see the potential. You put it all together. We did our job. Select the player. Bud Dupree.

 

Unfortunately, I've been doing this since the drafting of Troy Edwards. One of the things I've seen or picked up along the way is that you can do everything right in the scouting and do all of your homework, Colbert & Colbert & the rest of the gang. But, at the end of the day, he needs to fit the team and the scheme. Bud Dupree is strictly a 4-3 DE. He can't set an edge. He can't move at all side to side. Or cover. These are desirable traits of a 3-4 OLB. This is basically his job. However, if Bud Dupree jumps the snap, no one in the world can stop him. Ed Oliver would've been really nice. Not that I don't love Bush. Preferably, a nice landing strip. But I digress.

If the Steelers had you can't even say Aaron Donald, but two penetrating 3-tech DT in their base 4-2-5 defense, than Bud Dupree would be fine. He'd get 12+ sacks a year. Everything would be different. Instead of people taking up space, they are creating space, and you got lanes where he can then use his athletic ability and strength to formulate a plan to the rush. It's not bang your head all day. It's feed him this move all day and then use it against him. As he overextends and you put him on his [behind]

He's a 7 or 8 sack player at best with the players he has around him today. Quite frankly, I can get that kind of production out of someone else. At the NFL minimum. Next man up.

 

 

So, I'd trade him. Open up the $9m in cap space. To me. Bud Dupree needs speed around him. On the defensive line. That way it's just absolute chaos. And the offensive line is in a constant state of shart. It's not somewhere you want to be. The team that jumps out to me is the Atlanta Falcons. This team prides themselves on speed. ALL over the field. He works there. 

Now, my target. Julio Jones. The Atlanta Falcons made the call. They choose Matt Ryan over Julio Jones. Not that they don't want Julio Jones. When you draft OL in the form of reach. Granted, HOF. The Boston College kid. And then go offensive line again doubling up in round one. You tell me when push comes to shove. We're going with Matt Ryan. Lovely.\

Julio has a contract issue. It's all fine and dandy at the moment. And I'd expect him to get what he deserves. But, it's still business. If someone comes up with a better offer than you trade the player. No loyalty. That's how the game is played. 

When I look at the depth of the DE spot at the Falcons, they have two first round picks. Vic Beasley. Takk McKinley. McKinley was a bust on draft night after that outburst. Vic Beasley has 10 sacks over the past two years after dropping 15 his rookie year. That's another problem for the Falcons. Let me help you, Atlanta. Here's Bud Dupree. You don't wanna end up in a spot where you pay Beasley $15m AAV and then he has 5 sacks a year. Could you imagine that? Mercy. Bud Dupree is a talented player in an awful scheme for his abilities and comes in for competition on a "tryout-basis" (one year remaining) and to be part of the rotation. He'll win the job of starter on that defensive line. And he'll be a Pro Bowler. You gotta put people in positions to succeed or you lose value. Basically, you lose. My name is Oro. And I hate to lose. Do you get it?

 

Obviously, I'm gonna need to replace Julio so it's like a draft pick up or down level whether you get James Washington or JuJu Smith-Schuster. Julio Jones is 30 years old. And I'll go 6 years, $114m. Considering, you can't match that. And I, in uncertain terms, made that available to his agent in Belichickian fashion, will reduce his value. His age. His injury history. His contract. He can't even run good routes. It's just...... mama... there goes that man.

 

James Washington, Bud Dupree, PIT 2020 2nd, PIT 2021 2nd for Julio Jones. 

 

That gives them draft pick compensation to accommodate the difference in talent. And then they have Ridley, Sanu, Washington, Hardy at WR and McKinley, Dupree, and Beasley at DE. One could argue they are much better off going younger.

The reason. Big Ben has two years left. I'm All-In. We have the weakest schedule in years. 

 

 

 

[Chieferific]

You had me actually agreeing with some of your thoughts and had me thinking this isn't the usual stuff you post. Then I got to the "My target...Julio Jones" paragraph and sighed.

[Steeler Hitman]

On 6/27/2019 at 3:15 PM, Money said:

You scout the player. You see the measurables. You evaluate the character. You see the potential. You put it all together. We did our job. Select the player. Bud Dupree.

This happens in life too my friend.  There are some women that I have dealt with that in hindsight, I would turn and run in the other direction.  The draft is an art and not an exact science.  You can check all of the boxes and measureables as you stated and more often than not you will get some measure of production. Then you have some players like Tom Brady and AB that don't have the size and numbers, but turn out to be great players. 

Bud fell to the Steelers and Shane Ray while more of a natural pass rusher was passed up.  I still think the Steelers made a wise choice. 

I didn't feel that way selecting Troy Edwards over the Freak or drafting Jarvis Jones years later.

On 6/27/2019 at 3:15 PM, Money said:

 

Unfortunately, I've been doing this since the drafting of Troy Edwards. One of the things I've seen or picked up along the way is that you can do everything right in the scouting and do all of your homework, Colbert & Colbert & the rest of the gang. But, at the end of the day, he needs to fit the team and the scheme.

Sometimes they can fit the team and still fall short.  Limas Sweed is an example of that: Big, tall, fast, but can't catch.  See Sammy Coates years later.

Bud Dupree is strictly a 4-3 DE. He can't set an edge. He can't move at all side to side. Or cover. These are desirable traits of a 3-4 OLB. This is basically his job. However, if Bud Dupree jumps the snap, no one in the world can stop him. Ed Oliver would've been really nice. Not that I don't love Bush. Preferably, a nice landing strip. But I digress.

I am going to ride the Bud train until it derails.  I believe that his best years are still ahead of him if he can stay healthy.  He will never be a "great" pas rusher, but he can be very good in his role with the Steelers defense.  I am predicting that he hits his ten sacks this year and it propels him to the solid , but not real good level.  This will frustrate a lot of fans as he won't be Harrison or Porter in our defense.  He will resemble LaMarr Woodley, who teased more fans with his potential than his results.  I do think that Bud will be better than Jason Worilds was for the Steelers before he walked away from the game.

On 6/27/2019 at 3:15 PM, Money said:

If the Steelers had you can't even say Aaron Donald, but two penetrating 3-tech DT in their base 4-2-5 defense, than Bud Dupree would be fine. He'd get 12+ sacks a year. Everything would be different. Instead of people taking up space, they are creating space, and you got lanes where he can then use his athletic ability and strength to formulate a plan to the rush. It's not bang your head all day. It's feed him this move all day and then use it against him. As he overextends and you put him on his [behind]

He's a 7 or 8 sack player at best with the players he has around him today. Quite frankly, I can get that kind of production out of someone else. At the NFL minimum. Next man up.

NFL Minimum guys don't typically give you pass rush and 8 sacks consistently.  Bud is catching heat as a former #1 and for his salary.This is a prove it year to me. I respect the fact that many other fans feel that we have seen the best of Bud already. I just think that Bud is a late bloomer. He is a good guy, hard worker, and he competes (I see effort).  If he had La Maar's natural pass rush ability he would be all world with his athleticism.  He reminds me of the kid that you are trying to teach his times tables....You have to be patient. Eventually, they remember and then the light comes on and they understand. 

On 6/27/2019 at 3:15 PM, Money said:

 

 

So, I'd trade him. Open up the $9m in cap space. To me. Bud Dupree needs speed around him. On the defensive line. That way it's just absolute chaos. And the offensive line is in a constant state of shart. It's not somewhere you want to be. The team that jumps out to me is the Atlanta Falcons. This team prides themselves on speed. ALL over the field. He works there. 

Now, my target. Julio Jones. The Atlanta Falcons made the call. They choose Matt Ryan over Julio Jones. Not that they don't want Julio Jones. When you draft OL in the form of reach. Granted, HOF. The Boston College kid. And then go offensive line again doubling up in round one. You tell me when push comes to shove. We're going with Matt Ryan. Lovely.\

Julio has a contract issue. It's all fine and dandy at the moment. And I'd expect him to get what he deserves. But, it's still business. If someone comes up with a better offer than you trade the player. No loyalty. That's how the game is played. 

When I look at the depth of the DE spot at the Falcons, they have two first round picks. Vic Beasley. Takk McKinley. McKinley was a bust on draft night after that outburst. Vic Beasley has 10 sacks over the past two years after dropping 15 his rookie year. That's another problem for the Falcons. Let me help you, Atlanta. Here's Bud Dupree. You don't wanna end up in a spot where you pay Beasley $15m AAV and then he has 5 sacks a year. Could you imagine that? Mercy. Bud Dupree is a talented player in an awful scheme for his abilities and comes in for competition on a "tryout-basis" (one year remaining) and to be part of the rotation. He'll win the job of starter on that defensive line. And he'll be a Pro Bowler. You gotta put people in positions to succeed or you lose value. Basically, you lose. My name is Oro. And I hate to lose. Do you get it?

 

Obviously, I'm gonna need to replace Julio so it's like a draft pick up or down level whether you get James Washington or JuJu Smith-Schuster. Julio Jones is 30 years old. And I'll go 6 years, $114m. Considering, you can't match that. And I, in uncertain terms, made that available to his agent in Belichickian fashion, will reduce his value. His age. His injury history. His contract. He can't even run good routes. It's just...... mama... there goes that man.

 

 

You know football and you tease us with some good common sense analysis and points and then.............

 

On 6/27/2019 at 3:15 PM, Money said:

James Washington, Bud Dupree, PIT 2020 2nd, PIT 2021 2nd for Julio Jones. 

 

That gives them draft pick compensation to accommodate the difference in talent. And then they have Ridley, Sanu, Washington, Hardy at WR and McKinley, Dupree, and Beasley at DE. One could argue they are much better off going younger.

The reason. Big Ben has two years left. I'm All-In. We have the weakest schedule in years. 

 

 

 

You are like the gorgeous chick that you get to go to a company dinner and you tell her not to say a word or smile. And then.....

At least I have fun with you my friend.  Enjoy your day. 

[Chieferific]

I think we sometimes forget that historically the Steelers have deployed one of their OLBs as not the primary Pass Rusher but one that covers and sets the edge with some Pass Rushing.  

[3rivers]

2 hours ago, Chieferific said:

I think we sometimes forget that historically the Steelers have deployed one of their OLBs as not the primary Pass Rusher but one that covers and sets the edge with some Pass Rushing.  

I forget what it's like to watch the steelers with 2 legit D starting OLB's, it's been what.... 7 years? How many more will it be until they get this back NEAR to what it should be?

[Chieferific]

19 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

I forget what it's like to watch the steelers with 2 legit D starting OLB's, it's been what.... 7 years? How many more will it be until they get this back NEAR to what it should be?

Ok and that's fine but ALL of your OLB complaints are based solely on Pass Rush which leads me to believe you don't understand the Defensive Philosophy 

[3rivers]

4 hours ago, Chieferific said:

Ok and that's fine but ALL of your OLB complaints are based solely on Pass Rush which leads me to believe you don't understand the Defensive Philosophy 

The run D isn't great either, setting the edge etc. Coverage is maybe tolerable, nothing special.  Watt is legit, not Harrison , Woodley, Greene, Lloyd etc, but still like the Watt pick and he stays. Dupree needs to make his game much better, then the OLB could be considered legit. 

The D philosophy last year was to give up late in the game btw.

[Steeler Hitman]

14 hours ago, 3rivers said:

The run D isn't great either, setting the edge etc. Coverage is maybe tolerable, nothing special.  Watt is legit, not Harrison , Woodley, Greene, Lloyd etc, but still like the Watt pick and he stays. Dupree needs to make his game much better, then the OLB could be considered legit. 

The D philosophy last year was to give up late in the game btw.

Two points:

1. I was not initially a fan of the Watt pick. I thought for certain that needing pass rush, they would select none other than Takk McKinley who the Falcons selected a few picks earlier.  However, the fotball Gods seem to be smiling as Watt has improved each year and despite still not being "a great" pass rusher, he put up some numbers and is the all-around OLB the Steelers seem to prefer over pure pass rushers.  Again the Steelers often dropped Woodley, Porter, Harrison and Lloyd and Green in coverage which many of us often criticized. Dupree may actually be better at dropping in coverage than anyone other than Porter who as good a pass rusher as he was, could drop very well. Sacks are sexy and shut up fans, commentators and critics.  If Bud gets even half the sacks that he has missed the past two years, we are probably having a different conversation about him.

2. Giving up big plays and not being able to stop anyone, cost them some games.  Having players who an take the ball away would certainly help whether that be via INT's, forced fumbles, or strip sacks.  This team was often around the ball, but couldn't secure or hold onto it many times. Having an offense that can run the clock out helps tremendously as well.  The Steelers can improve their offense in this area.  Back in Cowher's day, they could get a 14 point lead and run the ball 35 times in the second half and still win by 17.  Great teams put it all together.  That has been what has hurt the Steelers over the past several years: Solid pass offense, inconsistent rushing attack.  Solid run defense, horrible pass defense.  Solid Offense, sketchy defense, etc.  Solid Rushing attack and horrible rushing defense.

[3rivers]

29 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

Back in Cowher's day, they could get a 14 point lead and run the ball 35 times in the second half and still win by 17.  Great teams put it all together.  That has been what has hurt the Steelers over the past several years: Solid pass offense, inconsistent rushing attack.  Solid run defense, horrible pass defense.  Solid Offense, sketchy defense, etc.  Solid Rushing attack and horrible rushing defense.

that was back when they had a coach running the team , not a spoiled QB.  Remember, this is the new steelers now, so forget about a solid rushing attack that runs out the clock and wears the opponent down. If they would have done this last year, they could have won a few more games, but they gave up on the run.  It's bens team, get used to this for another few years.  IMO, you can't win like that, because it's important to get the ground game going late in a game too close.

[Chieferific]

Cowher was absolutely BASHED for his turtle style Offense. MANY on this board would have blasted him for not being aggressive enough. While his philosophy won plenty of games, it also cost the Steelers plenty of games in the Regular Season AND Playoffs. I prefer today's "Ben run" Offense. I simply cannot and will not understand the Ben hate. 

[3rivers]

3 hours ago, Chieferific said:

Cowher was absolutely BASHED for his turtle style Offense. MANY on this board would have blasted him for not being aggressive enough. While his philosophy won plenty of games, it also cost the Steelers plenty of games in the Regular Season AND Playoffs. I prefer today's "Ben run" Offense. I simply cannot and will not understand the Ben hate. 

I would have been one of them, actually was I think the idea of running and controlling the LOS and clock is what this team needs to take from the cowher days. Other than that , the O cowher had was quite annoying for most .  This isn't ben hate either, rather a way of saying that tomlin isn't in control as much as he should be. Thats nothing new, no need to repeat it either and it won't change.

[Chieferific]

32 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

I would have been one of them, actually was I think the idea of running and controlling the LOS and clock is what this team needs to take from the cowher days. Other than that , the O cowher had was quite annoying for most .  This isn't ben hate either, rather a way of saying that tomlin isn't in control as much as he should be. Thats nothing new, no need to repeat it either and it won't change.

This seems contradictory and I think calling Ben "spoiled" is an example of hate. This makes it look as if you have a problem with Ben on and/or off the field. Can Ben be criticized? Absolutely. But you seem to point the finger at him a little too often IMO (along with Colbert/Dupree/Burns/Tomlin). 

[3rivers]

off the field is a bit lame to bring up, I am more of a critic of what happens on the field. Off the field might have some blemishes, but lets not go there. Lawrence Taylor had off the field issues and if there was a draft for an all time team I wouldn't be the only one to  take him with the first pick or at least first D pick. 

11 minutes ago, Chieferific said:

But you seem to point the finger at him a little too often IMO (along with Colbert/Dupree/Burns/Tomlin). 

dupree could be a result of bad coaching, wait and see. At least he puts the effort in during the offseason, with smith, miller etc, he tried. Burns is done, so that  shouldn't be on there. Colbert though, like others here, I am seeing too many fails . Tomlin is mediocre, maybe top 10 but who cares anyways - he is not going anywhere. 

[MOSteelers56]

1 hour ago, 3rivers said:

off the field is a bit lame to bring up, I am more of a critic of what happens on the field. Off the field might have some blemishes, but lets not go there. Lawrence Taylor had off the field issues and if there was a draft for an all time team I wouldn't be the only one to  take him with the first pick or at least first D pick. 

dupree could be a result of bad coaching, wait and see. At least he puts the effort in during the offseason, with smith, miller etc, he tried. Burns is done, so that  shouldn't be on there. Colbert though, like others here, I am seeing too many fails . Tomlin is mediocre, maybe top 10 but who cares anyways - he is not going anywhere. 

This is exactly what he’s talking about. You are such a hater. When being shown, in a respectful manner, your constant criticism, you respond with more hate and criticism. Every post of yours is hating on Ben, Tomlin, Colbert, Burns, and Dupree. A few years ago all your posts were hate on the O-line. 

These are all valid points. I’m just saying, and I can’t be the only one who feels this way, give it a freaking rest. 

[3rivers]

1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said:

This is exactly what he’s talking about. You are such a hater. When being shown, in a respectful manner, your constant criticism, you respond with more hate and criticism. Every post of yours is hating on Ben, Tomlin, Colbert, Burns, and Dupree. A few years ago all your posts were hate on the O-line. 

These are all valid points. I’m just saying, and I can’t be the only one who feels this way, give it a freaking rest. 

not a hater, but more along the lines of disappointed with how they let ben get away with what  he gets away with . dupree could be a victim of poor coaching/scheme, so that's not all on him. Burns though, forget about as that was another bad RD1 pick by colbert, a reach and a fail.  The OL way back was also on colbert, but now that is solid, but lets see how they are without Munchak who I credit for a fair amount of the OL success. 

I know this team will stay the way it is, now it's a matter of accepting the blamers, disappointments and sometimes bad coaching. Thats an nfl fan for most teams most weekends .  No hate required, just stating the obvious and getting hate for it.