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3 hours ago, Chieferific said:

This seems contradictory and I think calling Ben "spoiled" is an example of hate.

how many other teams that are credible would allow him to call out teammates? It should be a dead topic - we know ben gets away with more than traditional winning coaches would allow.  Thats the way it will be as long as he is with the steelers, like it or  not.  It's not an example of hate, more like a disappointed fan as a result of the coach allowing the QB to misbehave. This would be more on tomlin's report card , he needs to get control of the locker room and that includes ben.  Of course colbert's comments were off as well, 52 kids was a bad way of saying it  but too late now. 

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48 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

not a hater, but more along the lines of disappointed with how they let ben get away with what  he gets away with . dupree could be a victim of poor coaching/scheme, so that's not all on him. Burns though, forget about as that was another bad RD1 pick by colbert, a reach and a fail.  The OL way back was also on colbert, but now that is solid, but lets see how they are without Munchak who I credit for a fair amount of the OL success. 

I know this team will stay the way it is, now it's a matter of accepting the blamers, disappointments and sometimes bad coaching. Thats an nfl fan for most teams most weekends .  No hate required, just stating the obvious and getting hate for it.

Be specific please. What exactly are you talking about here?

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44 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

how many other teams that are credible would allow him to call out teammates? It should be a dead topic - we know ben gets away with more than traditional winning coaches would allow.  Thats the way it will be as long as he is with the steelers, like it or  not.  It's not an example of hate, more like a disappointed fan as a result of the coach allowing the QB to misbehave. This would be more on tomlin's report card , he needs to get control of the locker room and that includes ben.  Of course colbert's comments were off as well, 52 kids was a bad way of saying it  but too late now. 

Are you for real here? It's not uncommon for LEADERS to call out teammates who are not doing their job. I can get on board with keeping the comments in house and not go thru the media but "calling out" teammates is common place and often necessary. 

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I'd repeat my own relatively safe assumption that criticizing Brown behind closed doors wasn't much welcome by Brown. Not much more than anything public. And that attempts behind closed doors to resolve issues in a quieter matter likely/almost certainly failed to reach him. It's strange to me that people think that comment was the start rather than a culmination of a series of events - many we don't even know about. Ben typically heaped praise on Brown no matter what.

What he said about Washington is a nothing story and could have come out of the mouth of any number of players. He stated the obvious. It was a play an NFL WR has to make.

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On 7/1/2019 at 11:47 AM, 3rivers said:

that was back when they had a coach running the team , not a spoiled QB.  Remember, this is the new Steelers now, so forget about a solid rushing attack that runs out the clock and wears the opponent down. If they would have done this last year, they could have won a few more games, but they gave up on the run.  It's Ben's team, get used to this for another few years.  IMO, you can't win like that, because it's important to get the ground game going late in a game too close.

The problem is that so often people think it has to be one way or the other. Why not both?  There were times in Cowher's day when we wished that Ben (early in his career) had the confidence and staff to win a shootout or could come back 10 or 14 points down.  I get that passing is sexy in today's game, but on first and goal on the two: Do we really need to throw the ball or is it better to ram the ball down their throats?

There will be times that winging it and Ben being the Gunslinger will be needed.  Let's find that common ground.  Ben can throw it and will be even more accurate and efficient with WR' running more disciplined routes.  AB was great and I wish we still had him (minus the drama), but some of the wrong patterns, forced balls, feed my stats stuff got the offense in trouble at times. There were also times over the past few years that our OL could not move the DL consistently and that hurt them (Denver and Raiders last year in particular). The Steelers had a decent ypc average against the Bronco's, but at times did not effectively run the ball to control the offense better. Some may have had to do with the four turnovers and getting behind in early downs.  

I still think that most of us believe that this offense and team is better when they are balanced.  The defense is even better when they are not on the field. Long meticulous drives wear down opposing defenses and keeps your fresh. No secret there.

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5 hours ago, Steeler Hitman said:

Why not both?

I'm in agreement, good idea. Whatever works is how I would see it. Problem I have had is they give up on the run too early sometimes, Connor gets better as the game goes on. I suppose having AB had something to do with that as well - he was the best WR for the last 6 years according to some so why not just throw to him. This year could see more rushing attack. 

 

23 hours ago, Chieferific said:

Are you for real here? It's not uncommon for LEADERS to call out teammates who are not doing their job. I can get on board with keeping the comments in house and not go thru the media but "calling out" teammates is common place and often necessary. 

ok, calling out in the media, sorry:o You see this as I do.  Hoping that is not going to happen anymore, but wait and see. It would be nice if the team had less drama and were a close group without typical media BS to stir the pot.  Probably not an easy feat today though, with social media, and media in general.

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On 7/1/2019 at 7:13 PM, 3rivers said:

not a hater, but more along the lines of disappointed with how they let ben get away with what  he gets away with . Dupree could be a victim of poor coaching/scheme, so that's not all on him. Burns though, forget about as that was another bad RD1 pick by Colbert, a reach and a fail.  The OL way back was also on Colbert, but now that is solid, but lets see how they are without Munchak who I credit for a fair amount of the OL success. 

I know this team will stay the way it is, now it's a matter of accepting the blamers, disappointments and sometimes bad coaching. That's an NFL fan for most teams most weekends .  No hate required, just stating the obvious and getting hate for it.

I welcome different opinions and perspectives. I often learn and see things from a viewpoint that I didn't consider before. While I may not always agree, I can respect someone who makes a legitimate argument for what they are saying or believe.  I don't like the "button pushers" who come up with unsubstantiated crazy theories, perspectives, ideas and/or just disagree for the sake of stoking the fire or getting a reaction.

I think, to many, that is perceived or feels disrespectful. Most of us come here to discuss, learn and or give a point of view, opinion, or share factual information. I think many of us get frustrated if someone takes a position and seems to ignore valid, rationale thoughts, opinions or arguments against an opposing point of view (just to be a hater). 

Some people hate Big Ben. It doesn't matter what he says or does, how many SB's he wins, they will always hate him. Same thing with Coach T, Mr. Colbert, other players (Bud included).  People will try to put an asterisk next to people's name's that they don't like or agree with when they have accomplishments or positives.  They seem to feel like they have to point out something wrong to balance it out. That is a classic hater in my humble opinion. That seems to be the way of the world now in so many other areas. The left can't ever give the right credit and vice versa. Kinda sad in my book.  We have opinions and think that our opinions are fact and the gospel. Sometimes they are and sometimes they aren't.  Kordell Stewart never became the next Brett Farvre as I predicted. AB turned out to be a pretty awesome WR as I predicted.  Willie Colon never became the next Alan Faneca, but Hines Ward turned out to be a pretty darn good football player and WR. Dirty Red did not replace Vince Williams has not become the next Jerry Osavsky in our defense.  I preferred that the Steelers hire Ken Whizenhut or Russ Grimm over Mike Tomlin at the time.  We have our opinions and wins and losses with those opinions.  Can we admit when we are proven wrong or our opinions of a situation or player is not what we think or thought?

On 7/1/2019 at 5:28 PM, MOSteelers56 said:

This is exactly what he’s talking about. You are such a hater. When being shown, in a respectful manner, your constant criticism, you respond with more hate and criticism. Every post of yours is hating on Ben, Tomlin, Colbert, Burns, and Dupree. A few years ago all your posts were hate on the O-line. 

These are all valid points. I’m just saying, and I can’t be the only one who feels this way, give it a freaking rest. 

I definitely get what you are saying. I will say that there is a fine line between difference in opinions, disagreements and outright hating though. They are different things. On the flip side, we have some on here who will bash you if you don't agree with what the majority or in some cases they themselves think or believe.  We don't want to be a forum of robots with everyone thinking the same way either.  It is easy to connect with those who think and believe as you do. We sometimes struggle with connecting and understanding those who believe differently than we do. Being completely objective is tough for the media and darn near impossible in a forum of people who are all expressing their opinions as fact. :D  Sometimes we all think (or act or are perceived as) we know it all or have the answers. "Coach T should listen to me. I could do what Mr. Colbert does. What the heck are these scouts evaluating? Why is Big Ben still here?"  These are some of the opinions we get and or give.

I respect the opinions and views from most in this group more-so than I do a lot of "so called" professionals, experts, and insiders. The reason that I say most s there are a few who simply stoke the coals to keep a fire burning, controversy or just to see if they can get a reaction: good or bad. I believe that most of us have a much better understanding and pulse of this team than a lot of the "crap" I read about, hear about, or see published on websites and various other media outlets. We watch the games, do research, study film, discuss ideas and see things that someone viewing from the outside doesn't. Yet the vast majority of us don't have "insider" information or access to the coaches, players and front office people and in my humble opinion do a better job than some of these "professionals." Just my two cents....

For the record, our OL deserved some criticism. In 2008 it was joked about and said, that the Steelers won the SB with the worst OL in history. Our OL couldn't consistently open holes and many times got blown up by stout and physical DL's in both the run game and pass blocking. This trend continued for many years and we seemed to get better when Pouncey stayed healthy and Coach Munchak joined the Steelers. I didn't "hate" on the OL, but I think they were pretty bad 2007 - 2014 and deserved some criticism.

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8 hours ago, Steeler Hitman said:

Kordell Stewart never became the next Brett Farvre as I predicted. AB turned out to be a pretty awesome WR as I predicted.  Willie Colon never became the next Alan Faneca, but Hines Ward turned out to be a pretty darn good football player and WR. Dirty Red did not replace Vince Williams has not become the next Jerry Osavsky in our defense.  I preferred that the Steelers hire Ken Whizenhut or Russ Grimm over Mike Tomlin at the time.  We have our opinions and wins and losses with those opinions.  Can we admit when we are proven wrong or our opinions of a situation or player is not what we think or thought?

 

fans will have hope for player being better than they end up being. Sadly, some players eventually do better on another team, and when that happens it is a reason to criticize coaching/scheme etc.

 

8 hours ago, Steeler Hitman said:

. Yet the vast majority of us don't have "insider" information or access to the coaches, players and front office people and in my humble opinion do a better job than some of these "professionals." Just my two cents....

it's many peoples 2 cents, it makes sense, yet often these experts are wrong just like fans can be.  It can make for an interesting season or for surprises, both good and or bad.  

 

8 hours ago, Steeler Hitman said:

For the record, our OL deserved some criticism. In 2008 it was joked about and said, that the Steelers won the SB with the worst OL in history. Our OL couldn't consistently open holes and many times got blown up by stout and physical DL's in both the run game and pass blocking. This trend continued for many years and we seemed to get better when Pouncey stayed healthy and Coach Munchak joined the Steelers. I didn't "hate" on the OL, but I think they were pretty bad 2007 - 2014 and deserved some criticism.

it would be interesting to read some of my old posts. I would say I hated the OL's lack of ability in the run game and in pass pro as a unit. Player wise,  Starks was decent at times (especially in the SB 2008) but in general the OL was terrible. That is more on the FO though as the players can only play as they do, so get better players. They let this go for so long, and I really thought ben was going to be IR'd or even possibly get a career ending injury, it was that bad. I was one that never like the hype for Colon, but that once again was the FO more than the player.  It's in the past, but it could repeat in the future.  I would say 2007-2009 was the worst, but who cares now that it's history.  I agree that was the worst OL to win a SB. The D carried the team and then Ben was great on the winning drive. 

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