pollino14 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 5 hours ago, The LBC said: Pretty much my feelings. People on Twitter are hyping it to no end and blowing smoke up Chris' backside about it being the best match of his career (it's not; I'd argue it's not even his best match in Japan, but I don't know if there's still video floating around online of his blowoff match with Gedo before he left to go to WCW) or the best since Steamboat/Savage (likely posted by someone who wasn't even born when S/S happened). It's the best match he's had since his before he was rocking scarves and a LiteBrite jacket (so in some time), but yeah, this match ultimately delivered for me like Jericho/AJ did: It was too over-hype-able in my mind to ever live up. I had Naito/Okada and Cody/Ibushi as better matches if you're scoring to consider pacing/booking/selling and working (in terms of both the ring work and working the crowd), and had Jericho/Omega on the level with the Jr. Heavyweight title Fourway (which I thought had potential to be a show stealer, but came up a little short, though the booking leading into it was stellar, particularly the back-and-forth between Scurll and Ospreay). What did you think about the show overall? I think I might've had lofty expectations. It just wasn't their best show imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 6 hours ago, pollino14 said: What did you think about the show overall? I think I might've had lofty expectations. It just wasn't their best show imo. I always have trouble with Japanese shows on the whole because the format just doesn't always agree with me. The need to do a many multi-man match just for the sake of doing a battle royal and getting all the old boys and the young lions on the card feels frivolous to me. I get it - it's like the Andre battle royal where you're trying to get as many people as possible a payday on your biggest card of the year. But when you're doing a 6-man tag gauntlet match (with 5 teams) later on in the card it's just too much. With the talent on the card, this just felt like they'd have been better off booking more matches and breaking the card up over two nights (which is something I've felt WWE ought to do with Wrestlemania for a while now). You said the same thing I did, I built the card up to more in my mind than they actually delivered on. I can't quite put my finger on it but the Suzuki/Goto match didn't deliver for me - and I think part of it is because they just did a different type of Deathmatch at Dominion so this felt redundant outside of Goto actually going over this time. Also, I feel like booking Suzuki in deathmatches when he's the champion is unnecessary and while it might slightly fit the character it flies in the face of how he wants fight an opponent. Ultimately, even with the stuff that I'm not all that fond of on the card still, Dominion 6.11 was a stronger show for me than Wrestle Kingdom 12 was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollino14 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 26 minutes ago, The LBC said: I always have trouble with Japanese shows on the whole because the format just doesn't always agree with me. The need to do a many multi-man match just for the sake of doing a battle royal and getting all the old boys and the young lions on the card feels frivolous to me. I get it - it's like the Andre battle royal where you're trying to get as many people as possible a payday on your biggest card of the year. But when you're doing a 6-man tag gauntlet match (with 5 teams) later on in the card it's just too much. With the talent on the card, this just felt like they'd have been better off booking more matches and breaking the card up over two nights (which is something I've felt WWE ought to do with Wrestlemania for a while now). You said the same thing I did, I built the card up to more in my mind than they actually delivered on. I can't quite put my finger on it but the Suzuki/Goto match didn't deliver for me - and I think part of it is because they just did a different type of Deathmatch at Dominion so this felt redundant outside of Goto actually going over this time. Also, I feel like booking Suzuki in deathmatches when he's the champion is unnecessary and while it might slightly fit the character it flies in the face of how he wants fight an opponent. Ultimately, even with the stuff that I'm not all that fond of on the card still, Dominion 6.11 was a stronger show for me than Wrestle Kingdom 12 was. I agree with that. They go a bit overboard with the multi man tag matches. For me Tanahashi v. Jay White was the most disappointing bout of the night. With that platform, I don't think Jay got over like I hope he would've. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 14 minutes ago, pollino14 said: I agree with that. They go a bit overboard with the multi man tag matches. For me Tanahashi v. Jay White was the most disappointing bout of the night. With that platform, I don't think Jay got over like I hope he would've. Well, and I say this realizing that Jay needed something to get him to standout because he has a pretty generic look as gaijin wrestlers go, I don't think the Switchblade gimmick is doing him any favors. He might be able to get it over better in ROH or RevPro, but I don't think that's the kind of gimmick you can debut in Japan, I think you've got to establish it elsewhere and then come in with it already known. I just don't think, even with him having been a former young lion, people got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollino14 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I’m getting real tired of WWE. It’s completely worthless watching RAW or SD, nothing important or creative ever happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom cody Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I still enjoy watching the product but yeah things could be much better. They need another company to set up and become like WCW was. The lack of a true #2 wrestling company has hurt the WWE big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texansfan713 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Raw 25th anniversary gonna be lit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 10 hours ago, tom cody said: I still enjoy watching the product but yeah things could be much better. They need another company to set up and become like WCW was. The lack of a true #2 wrestling company has hurt the WWE big time. The closest you're going to get is NJPW if they expand their US foothold. ROH isn't going to do it even with Sinclair Broadcasting behind them. IMPACT is tainted and no matter how many new management teams you put in there, they can't get anyone with actual sway to understand they need a COMPLETE re-brand that doesn't use "TNA," "Impact," or any of the terminology that carries the stigma of the previous product. Vince's biggest competition right now is himself with NXT. And booking the way ROH and a number of others have in terms of booking for the fans who just want to mark out for spot-fests isn't going to get you the kind of network deal necessary to compete with Vince. Would Vince struggle if there were a prime WCW (wouldn't even have to be MNW's era, it could be Dusty/Ole with the book late 80's/early 90's WCW) about? Sure. But MMA is and has been a bigger threat to him than any other promotion has since he bought WCW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollino14 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 11 hours ago, The LBC said: The closest you're going to get is NJPW if they expand their US foothold. ROH isn't going to do it even with Sinclair Broadcasting behind them. IMPACT is tainted and no matter how many new management teams you put in there, they can't get anyone with actual sway to understand they need a COMPLETE re-brand that doesn't use "TNA," "Impact," or any of the terminology that carries the stigma of the previous product. Vince's biggest competition right now is himself with NXT. And booking the way ROH and a number of others have in terms of booking for the fans who just want to mark out for spot-fests isn't going to get you the kind of network deal necessary to compete with Vince. Would Vince struggle if there were a prime WCW (wouldn't even have to be MNW's era, it could be Dusty/Ole with the book late 80's/early 90's WCW) about? Sure. But MMA is and has been a bigger threat to him than any other promotion has since he bought WCW. Seriously don’t know why Sinclair doesn’t invest more. I believe their profits grew 20% or something this year? How significant do you think the 10k seat show can be in September? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 7 hours ago, pollino14 said: Seriously don’t know why Sinclair doesn’t invest more. I believe their profits grew 20% or something this year? How significant do you think the 10k seat show can be in September? I think Sinclair may just be using ROH as a temporary placeholder. If/when they roll out their planned conservative media platform onto WGN and the number of local affiliate stations they've been buying up, I don't know that I see them being horribly keen to air pro wrestling in a primetime slot. If anything, it might be a taped Saturday-morning airtime or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Doyle Rules Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Paige being forced to retire. Terrible news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livewire Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 2 hours ago, O'Doyle Rules said: Paige being forced to retire. Terrible news. I just saw that. It's a shame. I hope this doesn't lead to a downward spiral for her. She must be devastated. I hope she can stay with the E in some other role than a wrestler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PARROTHEAD Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Any chance James Storm appears at the Rumble? Hes done with Impact. NXT would be great for him again. Working with these guys coming up. But if he could do something like be the surprise entrant at 30 and help Roode win the Rumble. That would be glorious. The place would pop hard as CMPunk at a Chicago show. On the plus side. Mandys air time is going to look all the better without gutter trash stuck out there beside her. Cant wait to read Paiges future police reports and see more Alberto drunken rants with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 They've specifically said Paige is retiring from an in-ring capacity, not that she's retiring from the company. For all intents and purposes, she's a heel Daniel Bryan or Edge with boobs. I highly doubt the just pop James Storm straight into the Rumble even if he signs because he's flatly not known enough (yes, it's true, it would also be Vince's POV; AJ Styles is one thing, but the casual fan really doesn't know him that well). If Gargano doesn't win or more specifically loses cleanly at TakeOver the night before - I'd bank on him at least being in the Rumble if not also getting a main roster call-up. You want to get Johnny a massive debut you do it in someplace that's Smark Heaven like Chicago where you know they're going to chant, "Johnny Wrestling" the majority of the time he's out there. And yeah, I know that they still have the Ciampa/Gargano feud to complete, but that's something that could realistically either be given the Owens/Zayn treatment of carrying it over to the main roster or you do with Gargano what they did with Roode, where he double-times on both a brand and NXT through the Mania weekend TakeOver. All that said, I'm expecting Gargano vs Cien to be interfered in by a returning Ciampa. If they have him win, we're going to see some way of them either quickly moving the title onto someone like Adam Cole or actually running with a Ciampa/Gargano Mania weekend match for the title (Ciampa's scheduled to be back in March, but he can certainly be ahead of schedule and even if he's not "in ring shape," he's likely in a physical state by the end of this month where he's capable of working angles and doing run-ins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PARROTHEAD Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 LBC. you mention the "casual fan doesn't know him that well." But I dont consider Philly "Casual Fandom" like I do around me in DC, Richmond, Norfolk, Baltimore. Philly.. I think he pops like mad. Also think they should introduce the Dudleys to the HOF that night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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