tom cody Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 At 40 it's much to late for a Cena heel turn. Shame too because that is a great what could have been in wrestling history and would have been the shakeup the WWE needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggio7 Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 If they ever really wanted to go "Attitude" era for the hardcore wrestling guys, it would have made the most sense to heel up Cena. They can make anybody the top face for kids to cheer for if they wanted. Cena didn't want to go back to being a heel for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PARROTHEAD Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Eli Drake new GFW Champ. Did anyone catch the match? If the final 2 were to go 1 on 1. And Johnny eliminated Eli to make it Johnny vs Eddie. Why did it end up being Eli vs Eddie? Was there a botch they were trying to cover up for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PARROTHEAD Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 16 hours ago, biggio7 said: If they ever really wanted to go "Attitude" era for the hardcore wrestling guys, it would have made the most sense to heel up Cena. They can make anybody the top face for kids to cheer for if they wanted. Cena didn't want to go back to being a heel for whatever reason. All Vince. Vince is still stuck in a old 1984 state. Think he would of ever turned Hogan heel like WCW did? No, it took WCW crushing them for a couple years to turn their biggest names heel to keep up. Soon as that battle ended and WCW was done. Vince claimed more power than ever, only hired yes boys cause theres no competition, and fell back into old ways. Why I doubt Omega comes until hes wrapping up his career like Naka, Aries didnt work out, and Cody bailed. They arnt the yes boy types and know how to think for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom cody Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Vince had his moments during the 90's though. What Stone Cold put him through on TV (Kayfabe wise) made for amazing TV. Got to wonder if they had competition, still, if the product would be after taking such a step back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livewire Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 10 hours ago, PARROTHEAD said: Eli Drake new GFW Champ. Did anyone catch the match? If the final 2 were to go 1 on 1. And Johnny eliminated Eli to make it Johnny vs Eddie. Why did it end up being Eli vs Eddie? Was there a botch they were trying to cover up for? I'm really glad that Drake is the new champ. Probably my favorite guy on GFW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 13 hours ago, PARROTHEAD said: Eli Drake new GFW Champ. Did anyone catch the match? If the final 2 were to go 1 on 1. And Johnny eliminated Eli to make it Johnny vs Eddie. Why did it end up being Eli vs Eddie? Was there a botch they were trying to cover up for? Pretty sure Eli's feet never hit the floor - he had multiple instances of it last night. As odd as it sounds to say, they really don't care much about their live audience, these shows are taped several weeks in advance (Cornette was just talking on his podcast yesterday about how he was just about to head back to Kentucky after they'd shot roughly the next month-plus worth of programming), so if there was something that could/would affect your programming as much as who your world champion is coming out of a match, they would have just re-shot it to get the ending they'd wanted. Honestly, the only thing about last night (and my feeling is Cornette would disagree with me, because it does sound like something he would have booked in order to try and add some "legitimacy" to GFW) that I really didn't like was the American Top Team stuff (aside from Storm going postal, which was hilarious) and then the whole Grado segment just went too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Engh, there's some half-truths and falsehoods littered in here, even if your underlying premise is largely true. It was Vince's decision to turn Rock heel (clearly he wasn't a star at that point, but the point remains). Save for a couple very limited runs ("The Power Trip," for instance), Austin was always a babyface, he was just a babyface that was allowed and able to use heel tactics - and this was largely because ultimately it was McMahon being his foil and always reverting back to be heel himself, that kept Austin baby (JR and Austin himself have said as much). Cena was never turning, but that had nothing to do with John "not wanting to." Cena's a total company man; if he'd have been asked to do it and presented a long-term story plan that made sense to him (which really would have only taken Vince coming to him all worked up and excited about it), he'd have dove in headfirst. But there was a shift in the whole of how the company (not just the on-air product) was run when they moved out of the Ruthless Aggression era. Once they started rolling out the Be A Star stuff and the partnerships with various charities, they simply weren't going to have their biggest name (and yes, even when Daniel Bryan or CM Punk were the toast of the town, Cena was still their biggest name to the casual fan and the outside public) as a bad guy. It didn't work from a corporate sense. It was less a case of Cena being another Hogan (though that's a similar vein) and more a case of Cena being Bruno for them. Also the bit that you responded to from biggio, sorry, but he's wrong. You can't just "make any guy the top baby who kids will cheer for." The majority of talent in the business will tell you it's harder to get over as a babyface than it is as a heel and it's even more difficult to be memorable - which is an absolute requisite to be a "top babyface." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 On 8/24/2017 at 4:19 AM, tom cody said: At 40 it's much to late for a Cena heel turn. Shame too because that is a great what could have been in wrestling history and would have been the shakeup the WWE needs. The bolded is highly debatable. Look, I get that it would have been a great ZOMG moment and John would have probably knocked the character out of the park, but I really don't know that the pieces would have been there for the angle to work out in the same terms of longevity that the nWo and Hogan's heel turn did. You have to go back and look holistically at the dynamic of the nWo - the core group was ALL Outsiders, not just Hall and Nash, but Hogan too. Hogan wasn't a WCW/NWA original. He'd gone straight from the AWA to working for the McMahons and didn't end up in WCW until he was past his prime. Conversely, you had the foils to Hogan who were the stallwarts of WCW (guys on whose shoulders the company was legitimately built) in Flair and Sting (notice who Hogan's feuds largely centered around) and then later on the originals built up by WCW in Goldberg and DDP. Now, unless we extend our dream world to include guys like Edge and Daniel Bryan never suffering the kind of injuries that forced them into retirement, WWE never had the "originals" in the mold of Flair/Sting to counterbalance and be the babyface foil to a heel Cena, except maybe Taker... and Taker was pretty much working a part-time schedule by the time a Cena heel turn would have had the appropriate level of impact (i.e. he'd been the top babyface for so long, it was literally pulling the rug out from under fans to flip him heel). Orton certainly wasn't going to be able to carry that program; same with Batista. Shawn was retired (and had been mulling retirement for some time, basically ever since he'd retired Flair). Maybe... maybe you could have juiced Jericho in that role, but this was also the period where he was lobbying for that time off/away because he was a hot name in terms of getting booking for both TV host gigs and was getting Fozzy off the ground and actually recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Dillon Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 I wonder if they stretch out Stroman vs Lesnar for several matches or just a one off at no mercy. There was the rumor originally that Joe, Stroman, Wyatt, Rollins and Balor were all going to get shots at the belt before reigns wins it at Mania. I know the feeling is that Reigns is always being shoved down people's throats but he's really never had a major run with the belt. He was beat in like 5 minutes the 1st time. Lost it after a month the 2nd time and won 2 pay per views the 3rd time. It's not like they have let him go on an extended run even the length of Kevin Owens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 5 hours ago, Pastor Dillon said: I wonder if they stretch out Stroman vs Lesnar for several matches or just a one off at no mercy. There was the rumor originally that Joe, Stroman, Wyatt, Rollins and Balor were all going to get shots at the belt before reigns wins it at Mania. I know the feeling is that Reigns is always being shoved down people's throats but he's really never had a major run with the belt. He was beat in like 5 minutes the 1st time. Lost it after a month the 2nd time and won 2 pay per views the 3rd time. It's not like they have let him go on an extended run even the length of Kevin Owens. My bet is they plant the seed with Lesnar/Stroman to leave it as an option or on the backburner to bring back at Mania. It can be something as simple as whether Lesnar can hit the German suplex on Stroman (which, considering the German is an assisted move, he definitely can). There's more money to be made in that match and if they want to make Braun at worst the next Big Show or, best case scenario, another Andre... he doesn't even have to beat Lesnar, he just has to have a high profile match - like a Mania match - where he hits a couple of monster power spots on Lesnar (like tossing him from one turnbuckle, diagonally, across the ring to the opposite corner). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFM18 Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 Good to see a WWE thread on here. Been watching since 1992. Wrestlemania 8 was my first show. Current WWE favourites are: AJ Styles (been a fan since seeing him in TNA), Finn Balor (Big fan of the Bullet Club in NJPW which was great when AJ was leading them too), Braun Strowman (love how WWE have made him so dominant apart from the Fastlane match with Reigns this year), Baron Corbin (Like his character), Elias and Aiden English (Both talented artistes!). A few thoughts from this week's Raw and Smackdown: Raw We're finally getting Braun vs Brock. We were supposed to get it at GBOF I think but Braun's elbow injury curtailed that. I don't think its going to be a great match but should be a spectacle. Don't see them giving Braun the title yet but if he is allowed to be dominant against Brock for the majority of the match then should certainly maintain if not boost his aura. Elias has been awesome recently. Hopefully will get a bigger feud although he had a mini one with Balor. Love how Cole bigs him up too. About time we saw John Cena and Roman Reigns start something on screen. Good to see they're already looking for a fight and WWE aren't pretending they're best buds before they turn on each other. Don't expect to see this match until WM but would mean Reigns gets another WM main event. Can see JJ turning heel shortly. Like he wants to impress Kurt or people keep accusing him of being favoured because of Kurt and he turns. Smackdown Enjoyed the AJ/KO feud. Assuming its over now due to the stips but you never know with WWE. I imagine Kev will protest the fact that Corbin was his choice for ref and Shane got in the way but that may lead to a Shane/KO feud. AJ maybe heading to a feud with Corbin as they're both without a feud following this show. GLORIOUS!! Great to see Bobby Roode on Smackdown. Shame he had to appear when the Artiste Aiden English was performing though. Hope Aiden remains a fixture on the show. Also great to see Shelton return, although I don't feel this Gable/Benjamin tag team will last. Can see them in a match at HIAC. Glad to see the Smackdown Women's title off Naomi. Nothing against her personally but just not a fan of custom titles. Think the only one I tolerated was Steve Austin's smoking skull belt but I'm not a fan of when a wrestler gets to customize the belt. Intrigued to see what Dolph's planning to do. Has been totally wasted by WWE but hey, maybe this new direction will be some sort of success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Doyle Rules Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 23 hours ago, Pastor Dillon said: I wonder if they stretch out Stroman vs Lesnar for several matches or just a one off at no mercy. There was the rumor originally that Joe, Stroman, Wyatt, Rollins and Balor were all going to get shots at the belt before reigns wins it at Mania. I know the feeling is that Reigns is always being shoved down people's throats but he's really never had a major run with the belt. He was beat in like 5 minutes the 1st time. Lost it after a month the 2nd time and won 2 pay per views the 3rd time. It's not like they have let him go on an extended run even the length of Kevin Owens. He's headlined 3 wrestlemanias in a row. The same amount that austin and other great wrestlers have had their total run in wwe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Dillon Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 10 hours ago, O'Doyle Rules said: He's headlined 3 wrestlemanias in a row. The same amount that austin and other great wrestlers have had their total run in wwe. Technically he has, but last year was more the undertakers send off and he was part of it as a torch passing but mainly because he was the top guy NOT involved in the title scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenaline_Flux Posted August 29, 2017 Author Share Posted August 29, 2017 That Club tease tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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