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Cockrell Traded to the Giants


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http://www.steelers.com/news/transactions/article-1/Steelers-trade-Cockrell-to-Giants/47709a5e-c6c9-4116-ae0c-5db2e848956b

 

Interested to see further details about the pick.  I'm just happy they're getting some sort of value out of these guys rather than just cutting them for nothing.  That being said, would have rather had Cockrell for depth rather than Sensabaugh but it is what it is

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12 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Sensebaugh really outplayed Cockrell, Haden was a clear upgrade over Cockrell, and the other guys (Sutton, Hilton, Gay) have the ability to play inside and outside which Cockrell doesn't.

 

Not a big loss.  Got a pick for nothing.

MAYBE got a pick for nothing.  It's conditional.  Haden's talent isn't in question, it's his health that is of concern.  I wouldn't short myself on depth at CB like that.

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Too many trades/shifts in personnel for a team that went to the AFCS last year. I don't like all these moves in getting rid of players that started for us last season, or at least played a fairly decent sized role for us last year...Cockrell, Coates, David Johnson...not to mention all the new 'blood' that are NOT draft picks...

Haden, Alualu, Hunter, Vance McDonald, Watson, Hilton...just seems like a lot of turnover. I'm all for adding talent to fill the gaps, it just seems so un-Steeler like to behave this way. 

I hope this is one of those deals where it's a 4th if he plays more than 40% of the snaps, and a 5th, if not...rather than a 7th if he plays, or we get nothing if he doesn't type of deals. We need to make up for that 4th we lost.

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2 hours ago, warfelg said:

Sensebaugh really outplayed Cockrell, Haden was a clear upgrade over Cockrell, and the other guys (Sutton, Hilton, Gay) have the ability to play inside and outside which Cockrell doesn't.

 

Not a big loss.  Got a pick for nothing.

+1. No point having a cb that won't tackle  unless he is a shut down corner

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2 hours ago, Ward4HOF said:

Too many trades/shifts in personnel for a team that went to the AFCS last year. I don't like all these moves in getting rid of players that started for us last season, or at least played a fairly decent sized role for us last year...Cockrell, Coates, David Johnson...not to mention all the new 'blood' that are NOT draft picks...

Haden, Alualu, Hunter, Vance McDonald, Watson, Hilton...just seems like a lot of turnover. I'm all for adding talent to fill the gaps, it just seems so un-Steeler like to behave this way. 

I hope this is one of those deals where it's a 4th if he plays more than 40% of the snaps, and a 5th, if not...rather than a 7th if he plays, or we get nothing if he doesn't type of deals. We need to make up for that 4th we lost.

Very UNSteeler-like. Perhaps they're pushing all their chips in and going All In for Ben this year? That isn't to say I agree with all of the moves or that I think they are overall beneficial but perhaps they motive behind the "new" strategy.

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1 hour ago, Chieferific said:

Very UNSteeler-like. Perhaps they're pushing all their chips in and going All In for Ben this year? That isn't to say I agree with all of the moves or that I think they are overall beneficial but perhaps they motive behind the "new" strategy.

I don't think it's a pushing in all the chips thing.

I think they are realizing that the days of 10-15 high priced players, 10-15 reasonable, 32 ish dirt cheap players doesn't work anymore.  The depth the past 2 years sucked.  I think we're seeing a shift to the Patriots way where they are going to get a lot of guys they pay between $5-10 million, a few really high price ($15+ mil), and a few really cheap ($4 mil or less) players.  They needed to learn to not be afraid to rotate in new players more often.  Look at all those signings.  That's a lot of just new blood to do the same things as other guys did, and they are all possibly slightly better than who they replaced.  In most cases they are also a little younger too.

Personally I like all the turnover.  That's a lot of guys without the stigma of "We always lose to" or "Playing the ____ is an easy win".  That's a lot of guys who were ok-good players on bad teams that now have the drive and desire to give it their all.

This is exactly what the Patriots do.  They pick the guys with talent that were discarded by bad teams because they didn't understand how to use the guys in the right way.  We need to start to do that.  That's how you get a bunch of production from a TE to only run seam routes and spend $5mil on him but get the same production as a $10 mil TE.  That's how you sign a backup DE at $2mil, but get run stuffing downs other teams pay $6mil for.  That's how you pay $7mil for a potential bounceback #2 Corner, but get the same production as #1 CB's paid double that.

Most of this offseason has been very smart and efficient and I love it.  This is what I have been clamoring for ever since I joined this forum.  He never had to chase the big signing, but make the quiet quality signing of a guy who brings a certain skillset to your team.

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2 hours ago, warfelg said:

I don't think it's a pushing in all the chips thing.

I think they are realizing that the days of 10-15 high priced players, 10-15 reasonable, 32 ish dirt cheap players doesn't work anymore.  The depth the past 2 years sucked.  I think we're seeing a shift to the Patriots way where they are going to get a lot of guys they pay between $5-10 million, a few really high price ($15+ mil), and a few really cheap ($4 mil or less) players.  They needed to learn to not be afraid to rotate in new players more often.  Look at all those signings.  That's a lot of just new blood to do the same things as other guys did, and they are all possibly slightly better than who they replaced.  In most cases they are also a little younger too.

Personally I like all the turnover.  That's a lot of guys without the stigma of "We always lose to" or "Playing the ____ is an easy win".  That's a lot of guys who were ok-good players on bad teams that now have the drive and desire to give it their all.

This is exactly what the Patriots do.  They pick the guys with talent that were discarded by bad teams because they didn't understand how to use the guys in the right way.  We need to start to do that.  That's how you get a bunch of production from a TE to only run seam routes and spend $5mil on him but get the same production as a $10 mil TE.  That's how you sign a backup DE at $2mil, but get run stuffing downs other teams pay $6mil for.  That's how you pay $7mil for a potential bounceback #2 Corner, but get the same production as #1 CB's paid double that.

Most of this offseason has been very smart and efficient and I love it.  This is what I have been clamoring for ever since I joined this forum.  He never had to chase the big signing, but make the quiet quality signing of a guy who brings a certain skillset to your team.

I think Haden fell in their lap and they had the cap room and it was the highest need on their board. They said they got lucky there. Probably better than any alternative they had ever entertained.

 

I'm a big believer in the Churn and Burn. A lot of great cuts today. I've wanted David Johnson gone since the day we got him. Fitz. Knile. 

 

Cockrell is not a $1.7m player. He's about a bad a CB as Coates is a WR. Sammie is your classic no confidence in hands athletic WR. Clifford Franklin is the name. I'm thinking if Coates goes for roughly a Bill Belichick 30 draft spot trade, Cockrell should come in at 2018 6th rd pick. Hopefully, it's a complex option that with 70% of snaps gets bumped a round or some type of performance and we get a good kickback.

 

I think we dropped the ball on a Brock Osweiler one year, $1m deal. Cut Landry. He's trash. Brock is trash. But he's not New Jersey garbage dump trash.

 

Lastly, I think these moves are setting up another trade. Or well that's what my vision is. We got two picks coming into the 2018 draft arsenal and I'm expecting two more in the way of compensatory picks. Projected: 5th and 6th round. IMO if you're loaded for bear late you can trade one of your earlier picks and either use late picks for depth or combine to move up a round. The name I got in mind is HARRISON SMITH.

I think they do the deal because he will be 29 Feb. 2 and he has missed playing time every year due to injuries. He was also the highest paid safety at the time of his new deal in 2016 and I think he has since been surpassed by Eric Berry. My compensation was two 2nd round picks. And I think he would be the final piece to the puzzle.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Ward4HOF said:

Too many trades/shifts in personnel for a team that went to the AFCS last year. I don't like all these moves in getting rid of players that started for us last season, or at least played a fairly decent sized role for us last year...Cockrell, Coates, David Johnson...not to mention all the new 'blood' that are NOT draft picks...

Haden, Alualu, Hunter, Vance McDonald, Watson, Hilton...just seems like a lot of turnover. I'm all for adding talent to fill the gaps, it just seems so un-Steeler like to behave this way. 

I hope this is one of those deals where it's a 4th if he plays more than 40% of the snaps, and a 5th, if not...rather than a 7th if he plays, or we get nothing if he doesn't type of deals. We need to make up for that 4th we lost.

No offense, but this doesnt make alot of sense.

Yes, we made the AFCC game.....we also proved we still cant compete with the Patriots.    Its not all personnel related....but some of it is.

The players/starters being pushed aside were all weaknesses.   They arent changes for the sake of changes.  Wouldve been a decent 4 or 5, but Id rather give younger players with more potential a chance.  

Haden is a starting caliber CB when healthy.....Cockrell has never been starting quality and never will be.

Alualu?  Really??   He is depth on the DLine.  

Hunter over Coates is the most worriesome one, but Coates wouldve been the 4th or 5th WR, its just a turnover with backups, which happens alot.

Vance McDonald is replacing Green, whose career is over.

These were almost all changes that needed to be made....or just typical depth improvement that happens every offseason,.     The turnovers amongst our starters will be minimal, but for the best.  

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2 hours ago, Money said:

I think Haden fell in their lap and they had the cap room and it was the highest need on their board. They said they got lucky there. Probably better than any alternative they had ever entertained.

 

I'm a big believer in the Churn and Burn. A lot of great cuts today. I've wanted David Johnson gone since the day we got him. Fitz. Knile. 

 

Cockrell is not a $1.7m player. He's about a bad a CB as Coates is a WR. Sammie is your classic no confidence in hands athletic WR. Clifford Franklin is the name. I'm thinking if Coates goes for roughly a Bill Belichick 30 draft spot trade, Cockrell should come in at 2018 6th rd pick. Hopefully, it's a complex option that with 70% of snaps gets bumped a round or some type of performance and we get a good kickback.

 

I think we dropped the ball on a Brock Osweiler one year, $1m deal. Cut Landry. He's trash. Brock is trash. But he's not New Jersey garbage dump trash.

 

Lastly, I think these moves are setting up another trade. Or well that's what my vision is. We got two picks coming into the 2018 draft arsenal and I'm expecting two more in the way of compensatory picks. Projected: 5th and 6th round. IMO if you're loaded for bear late you can trade one of your earlier picks and either use late picks for depth or combine to move up a round. The name I got in mind is HARRISON SMITH.

I think they do the deal because he will be 29 Feb. 2 and he has missed playing time every year due to injuries. He was also the highest paid safety at the time of his new deal in 2016 and I think he has since been surpassed by Eric Berry. My compensation was two 2nd round picks. And I think he would be the final piece to the puzzle.

 

 

 

Lol you know, your post made sense until you got stupid at the end.  Harrison Smith?  The Vikings just re-signed him to a huge deal.  He's arguably the best safety in the entire league, on a great defense, and in his prime....and on a team that is not short on cap space.  So why, pray tell, would they give him up for 2 2nd rounders????  Damn dude.  

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6 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

No offense, but this doesnt make alot of sense.

Yes, we made the AFCC game.....we also proved we still cant compete with the Patriots.    Its not all personnel related....but some of it is.

The players/starters being pushed aside were all weaknesses.   They arent changes for the sake of changes.  Wouldve been a decent 4 or 5, but Id rather give younger players with more potential a chance.  

Haden is a starting caliber CB when healthy.....Cockrell has never been starting quality and never will be.

Alualu?  Really??   He is depth on the DLine.  

Hunter over Coates is the most worriesome one, but Coates wouldve been the 4th or 5th WR, its just a turnover with backups, which happens alot.

Vance McDonald is replacing Green, whose career is over.

These were almost all changes that needed to be made....or just typical depth improvement that happens every offseason,.     The turnovers amongst our starters will be minimal, but for the best.  

I understand this...but we typically fill these holes with one or two FA acquisitions, and the draft. This year, you have to admit, we've been at least 3x more active in FA/Trades than normal. That's my point, is all.

Cockrell may never be starting material, but he was easily better than Sensabaugh. Why not keep Cockrell?

Same with Coates. He's better than Rogers. So we trade him? And a 7th for a 6th?? To a Division Rival??

I get wanting to 'stuff the coffers' with draft picks, but when we are in 'win now' mode, we shouldn't be trading away talent for picks.

My overall point is we have made some highly irregular moves this offseason; more often than most. This cannot be refuted. Some make sense. Some do not, IMO, which really is what this boils down to...a matter of opinion. I believe they've 'turned over' the roster a bit more than my liking. If you are comfortable with it, then fair enough.

But when was the last time we signed a high-profile FA, traded a mid-late Rd pick for a Starter and a late Rd pick, traded a starter for a conditional pick, traded a #3 WR AND a 7th for a 6th Rd pick, all within the last 10 days before Cut-Down day...it's just unusual, is all...

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12 hours ago, Chieferific said:

Very UNSteeler-like. Perhaps they're pushing all their chips in and going All In for Ben this year? That isn't to say I agree with all of the moves or that I think they are overall beneficial but perhaps they motive behind the "new" strategy.

But like I mentioned to 43M...why trade away two players in Cockrell and Coates that are 'better' than other players that we kept on our roster, and traded them for picks, rather than players? Hopefully, this is a matter of knowing more than Colbert is letting on kinda of deal...

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Not that you guys need my 2 cents, but I thought Cockrell was a solid player for you guys.  Experienced, durable, and did a good job on our receivers when we played.  I know his short comings, but he's also only 26.  I definitely don't watch the Steelers as much as you guys but I agree with @Ward4HOF that he could have been quality depth at least, in a league where you can't have enough decent corners...

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