Top 5 Packers Age 25 or Younger?

[deathstar]

12 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

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Adams is in a tough spot right now. For his personal development as a player, you hope somebody made a decision this offseason on what Adams is going to be. Is he going to be a 0/1? A power 3? A 5? And you hope that they're having him build his body to that game.

For what it's worth, he's been taking a lot of snaps at the 0/1 during OTA's/minicamp.

[Leader]

12 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Tony Brown is the player you enjoy working with the most as a coach because all the physical talent in the world is there, but the head isn't......

Wont quote the entire post for space reasons, but wanted to highlight it in order to say "good post"....

Agree with your assessments and share your interest in the development of EQ and MVS. I've been an EQ advocate since the get go and hoped/hope his combination of size and speed can make a difference not seen in our WR corps for awhile. On the flip side, I think MVS has the cuts and quicks to embarrass some folks. I hope the coaches handle and train them right.

[Joe]

20 minutes ago, Leader said:

Wont quote the entire post for space reasons, but wanted to highlight it in order to say "good post"....

Agree with your assessments and share your interest in the development of EQ and MVS. I've been an EQ advocate since the get go and hoped/hope his combination of size and speed can make a difference not seen in our WR corps for awhile. On the flip side, I think MVS has the cuts and quicks to embarrass some folks. I hope the coaches handle and train them right.

This is why some of us think he's the one to primarily move to the slot. He was an underrated receiver coming out of college because he played for two third tier programs, but had significant production at both. His vertical isn't good, but he more than makes up for it in several other areas. 

[AlexGreen#20]

1 hour ago, Joe said:

This is why some of us think he's the one to primarily move to the slot. He was an underrated receiver coming out of college because he played for two third tier programs, but had significant production at both. His vertical isn't good, but he more than makes up for it in several other areas. 

I would have a very hard time putting a guy with his elite vertical skills in the slot. Especially if you have a body like Davante on the roster.

[gizmo2012]

On 7/10/2019 at 2:51 PM, MrBobGray said:

I'd take MVS over King for sure.  I like King a fair amount, but even outside his health my personal bet is on MVS being a better receiver than King is a corner.  Other than that though I think it's pretty cut and dry.

Jackson is better than King because he was available.  King can't stay on the field.

[MrBobGray]

On 7/19/2019 at 6:36 PM, AlexGreen#20 said:

Tony Brown is the player you enjoy working with the most as a coach because all the physical talent in the world is there, but the head isn't. 

All but the top 1% of NFL talents can't cover an average NFL receiver without having a good idea as to what route or route combos they might be seeing. 

Brown's limitations are mental. He doesn't catch the nuances. What does it mean that the WR is 8 yards off the numbers and not 5? He's not getting that's hinting at a dig route rather than a vertical. He's not getting the differences in the stem. The difference between a guy counting his steps to gauge an in-breaking route and a guy blowing off the line to take it deep. He sometimes misses his pass off responsibilities because he's not feeling what's happening behind him. Some of it is inexperience, but it's the same thing that haunted him at Bama.

He's probably never going to be a guy who processes it naturally and without thinking, but if you can train him to the point that he's going through his checklist without hesitation, that might be a player. The problem is that he's never really gone through that checklist in his career, he just goes and does. 

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Adams is in a tough spot right now. For his personal development as a player, you hope somebody made a decision this offseason on what Adams is going to be. Is he going to be a 0/1? A power 3? A 5? And you hope that they're having him build his body to that game.

On the other hand, the team might feel that his versatility, and by that I mean his ability to not be a disaster at any of them, is his most valuable trait to this team. At which point you don't try and mold his body and leave him at 315 and pray like hell that with a bit of man strength he grows into a strong fit at all of them. That doesn't happen often, but it sure is nice to have somebody who isn't going to kill you who can play anywhere.

At the moment, he's not quite solid enough to handle the double teams clean, but he's a load for Centers. He's not quite quick enough or polished enough to blow by Guards, and he doesn't have the pop to walk Tackles back. 

He's not a pure talent enough to be trying to play all spots

He needs to either get up 335 and develop that straight double team anchor or needs to find a home at 305 and find some hands to go with his length and strength in getting after the passer.

On the positive side, he's got talent and seems to be taking to coaching which was something of a concern in school. It's good clay, somebody just needs to mold it, which first requires deciding what to mold it in to.

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Allison is a good receiver. He's made major strides every year and turned himself into a guy that every team would love to have. He's got a "Solid#2" ceiling but he's not a guy who flashes pro bowl ability just because he lacks the tools.

You hope that the toolsier young guys eventually surpass him and he moves into that 3rd receiver spot where he's got the potential to be a difference maker. 

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I love MVS. It's always great to get a player late in the draft where the sheet says there's a whole bunch of red flags and question marks and then you go out on the field and go, "Uh, scouting department, I thought you said this guy couldn't find the football?" 

The ceiling is real. Not the most natural player, kinda similar to Tony Brown in that way, but not nearly as bad and at a position with a much shorter checklist. Of all of them, he might just be the safest bet just because the tools as they are where he was as a rookie always have a viable spot. He's also got some specials value if the offensive thing doesn't work out.

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And as much as I'm positive on MVS, EQ might be the guy that the coaches are higher on. He doesn't have the same athleticism in shorts, but he's a smooth athlete and is a lot more mature with where he's at. He came in with an NFL body and understanding NFL expectations which is a positive thing. So long as he keeps buying in, he's going to be solid. 

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Donnerson is a ST body at this point. Maybe he learns to not rush with his face, but at this point expecting anything out of him is setting yourself up for disappointment.

Wouldn't fight ya on any of this.  Only real places I diverge a little, and to some extent this is just filling hours until Thursday:

• I think you're dead on with Adams, except I think we're seeing him come into that strong fit for all of them right now.  By the end of the year he looked like a different player each week, and by the Lions game he looked like there was a real chance he may be that long term fit up and down the line.  Still a long way away from being that guy, but he was heavy against the double, he was beating guards with the swim and centers with power.  The biggest thing he needs to show is that he can do that consistently, every week, against real talent playing hard.  I'll be so incredibly interested what he looks like this preseason, perhaps more than almost anyone other than MVS/EQ.  
• 100% agree with Allison and MVS, but am probably a little higher on EQ than you.  He really looks like a guy who could be a long term problem in this league; he definitely came in NFL ready, but on top of that I see a guy who's shown a massive catch radius, agility in and out of his routes, legitimate YAC ability, and the intelligence to do a lot with all of it.  His routes are crisp even when he's not getting the ball, which is always a good sign for a young physical talent.  He doesn't have the ceiling MVS does, but that shouldn't take away from the player he looks like he's heading toward being.
• I know what you're saying about Brown, that was his rep coming out, but just watching him I feel like there's a chance he'll make it work anyway (as a depth CB, specifically). He overcommits to whatever he sees, but he plays so quick and his reaction time is so fast that there's stuff you can do with that player anyway.  Like you said, he goes and does, but think there's a chance that just given how quickly he does and goes that he can find a spot.  Often with guys who lack that mental processing you see them over-thinking and failing to react, caught up in trying to guess what they think is happening, but Brown at least can give you a guy that'll hit what's in front of him.

[Shanedorf]

Content is King on a message board
Props go to - >>> Cadmus,  MrBob Gray, AG20 & others for those write-ups

 

Here's my favorite under 25 -  attached at the hip to a perfect mentor;  he even taught Clark how to shave like a Pro DL

[JQ1]

1. Kenny Clark is the only obvious choice, and he’s a MONSTER! Beyond that, looking at availability and production it shakes out like this:

2. Blake Martinez-for me he’s an easy choice

3. Aaron Jones

4. Geronimo Allison

5. Dean Lowry

If Kenny King can stay on the field, I agree with those who put him in the top 5. I think he has all the ability to be a really good NFL corner. On the other hand, if he can’t stay healthy, he goes down as another TT dice roll who had a pre-existing history of injuries.

 Jaire Alexander had a solid rookie season, but for my ‘Top 5’ I need to see more than one season’s worth of play.

Edited July 24, 2019 by JQ1

[MrBobGray]

So I decided to go back and watch Kevin King's tape against Julio and AJ last season in weeks 2/3, and I have to say I was kind of shocked.  2017 King looks like a different athlete to 2018 King.  He had a bounce and suddenness to him that really jumped out; there was a play where Julio got him to take a few false steps on a crossing route; didn't quite fully open the hips, but he definitely gave Julio the route off the line and he looked pretty open as he hit midfield.  Ryan loads up to throw, and King just accelerated past Julio and swatted the ball out of midair.  Julio wasn't running flat out on a crosser obviously, but it was still a hell of a burst.  And it was consistent; he was repeatedly able to close on Julio on everything other than all-sprints on 9 routes.  Same thing with AJ, although Green got him turned the wrong way a number of times off the line and at the top of the stem.  The athleticism, the ability to change direction and flip his hips in an instant, it was just on a different level to the guy in 2018.

Now, King suffered a groin injury in week 2 2018 that knocked him out for a few weeks, and then injured his hamstring in week 9 against the Patriots and never returned before being IRed in week 13.  But King didn't look like himself in week 1 against the Bears either, and given he was coming off shoulder surgery in December 2017, I can't help but wonder if he suffered some kind of injury getting back in shape and never fully recovered.  Generally when a guy suffers multiple soft-tissue injuries in their lower body its because they're compensating for reduced functionality elsewhere.  This is sort of a nonsense conspiracy theory, but I have my suspicions that King was never really healthy last year.

For that reason and the fact that he's my favorite young player on the team along with Jaire, I'll be more interested to see what he looks like than anyone else come Training Camp this year.  There's other reasons that he may not have looked the same athletically; he looked physically bigger and more muscular in year 2, and he clearly made a conscious effort to improve his habit of opening his hips too early.  But I personally feel that it's likely King will be a healthier, more athletic player going into this season.  If he can combine that with the technique gains he displayed in year 2, he absolutely has a ceiling of an All-Pro CB.  He was giving Julio fits as a rookie who clearly had zero idea what the route was going to be most of the time.  Layer in that knowledge and understanding of the offensive tendencies he's gained and I think he can really shut bigger, more physical talent down completely.  Still curious to see if he'll be able to run with the quicker guys once his legs are back, but between he and Jaire the Packers have a really nice combo of skill sets and size, and both play strong in the run game.