Jump to content

Top 10 Linebackers


Guest

Recommended Posts

As I was trying to put this list together, I realized that throughout it's almost 60 year franchise history, the Vikings don't have any linebackers in the HOF...nor, do I believe, any have been eligible.  I imagine that as you see some of the names on this list, you'll think it's "too early" for them to be on the list, and others don't have the individual statistics that players at other positions might have.  I might agree with you if there was a logical person to put in their place.  The only player I thought about putting on the list, that I wound up not adding, is Mike Meriwether.  Anyway, here are my top 10 linebackers:

10. Eric Kendricks: (2015 - ) Kendricks has found a home at the MLB position on the Vikings defense.  His greatest strengths are his sideline to sideline speed and his tackling.  In a very short time he has amassed over 400 tackles.  The team rewarded him this offseason with a new 5 year, $50,000,000 contract.  He also has some liabilities.  One is his height.  Being only 6' tall, he often is matched against much taller players in pass coverage.  His size can also be an issue when he is running towards a gap in the line of scrimmage to tackle larger, more powerful backs.  But he is determined and aggressive and should remain a fixture on the defensive side of the ball.

9. EJ Henderson: (2003-2011) Henderson had a very respectful career as a Viking.  Drafted out of Maryland in the 2nd round, he played in all 16 games as a rookie. Statistically, his best year was 2007 when he recorded 118 tackles...incredibly 94 of them were solo tackles. His most memorable moment as a Viking was probably coming all the way back from a gruesome broken leg in 2009 to playing all 16 games in 2010 recording 105 tackles.  Henderson was elected to the Pro Bowl in 2011.

8. Anthony Barr: (2014 - ) Drafted in the 1st round out of UCLA, many fans, me included, had very high expectation for a player with both athleticism and size.  Many hoped that he would be this generations Lawrence Taylor.  Yet, I've determined that being this generations Anthony Barr is pretty good.  One of the things that he's very good at is causing and recovering turnovers.  He isn't the splashy sack artist coming around the edge...nor do the Vikings need him to be.  He's more than competent in coverage against tight ends and most running backs.  He will get exposed in zone coverage against the opponents number one receiver.  However, most offenses don't really test his side of the field much as his 6'5", 255 lbs size with speed seems to worry opposing QB's.  He's not a bad pass rusher either.  He doesn't get a lot of sacks as he seems to flush out the quarterback into other waiting defensemen. One play that Viking fans will remember is his 2017 hit on Aaron Rodgers that broke his collarbone causing the Green Bay QB to miss most of the season.

7. Wally Hilgenberg: (1968 - 79) Hilgenberg was one of 11 players to play in each of the four Viking Super Bowls.  He started 116 games for the Vikings after starting his career in Detroit in 1964.  He ranks 12th in team history for the number of tackles with 739.  He shares the team record with Scott Studwell for the most solo tackles in a single game at 13.  He played in an era when the front four, Eller, Larsen, Page and Marshall got all the attention.  Those guys tended to have the line of scrimmage wrapped up.  Hilgenberg's main task was in short and mid-range pass coverage.  Which, he did very well.  Much like Barr, he did his job well enough that quarterbacks often went elsewhere with their passing attempts.  I personally think he was an unsung hero on those great 70's defenses.  Sadly, he died at the age of 66 in 2008 from complications of ALS (Lou Gehrig's Disease).

6. Lonnie Warwick: (1965-72) Warwick was the starting middle linebacker on the legendary teams of the late 60's and early 70's.  Joe Kapp once called him the "meanest man" in football.  Truth be told, he was one of the guys that made the old Central division known as the "black and blue" division.  However, he was in the same division as Butkus and Nitschke, so he garnered little press.  But he could hold his own against those guys before the injuries started taking hold.  He led the Vikings in tackles for a four year stretch.

5. Roy Winston: (1962 - 76) Winston, like Hilgenberg, was one of the 11 Viking players to appear in all four Super Bowls.  His durability, like a lot of Vikings from that era, was legendary. He was known as a heavy hitter.  In one 1972 game against Miami, Winston hit the 240 pound Larry Csonka so hard that Csonka crawled off the field thinking that he had broken his back.  Csonka respected that hit so much that he invited Winston to be his guest when he was inducted into the Hall of Fame.  Winston had the same fate as Warwick and Hilgenberg playing behind the Purple People Eaters.  His statistics are pedestrian, and he won no individual awards.  But he was tough, and he got his job done.

4. Fred McNeill: (1974-85) 39 years before Anthony Barr was drafted in the first round out of UCLA, the Vikings drafted another Bruin linebacker in the first round of the 1974 draft.  This linebacker was Fred McNeill. McNeill fell in the pattern started by Winston, Warwick and Hilgenberg of simply doing his job well.  And he did it for 11 years. He was part of teams that game up the fewest yards (1975) and the fewest points (1976).  He was the first former player to diagnosed with CTE while living, and have that diagnosis confirmed upon his death.  He gave his health to the team.

3. Jeff Siemon: (1972-82) Siemon was a native Minnesotan, born in Rochester in 1950.  He took over the starting MLB position in 1973 from Lonnie Warwick. He was known for his intelligence, speed, and quickness.  Siemon was elected to 4 pro bowls during his career, and is one of the 50 Greatest Vikings.  Athletics runs in the Siemon family as his daughter Kelley was a four year starter and member of the Notre Dame women's basketball team that won the national collegiate championship in 2001.

2. Matt Blair: (1974-85) Blair came to the Vikings in the second round of the same draft that produced Fred McNeill.  He was one of the fastest linebackers in NFL history.  He earned 6 consecutive pro bowl honors (77-82) and made the all-rookie team in 74. He was elected second team all-pro in 1980.  Blair was an outstanding special teams player having blocked 20 kicks (3rd in NFL history).

1. Scott Studwell: (1977-90) With a name like Studwell, how could you be anything other than a linebacker?  He was the best ever to play for the Vikings.  When he retired, he was the team leader in tackles for a career with 1, 981.  In the 1981 season he recorded 230 tackles, which remains a team record.  In a game against Detroit in 1985, Studwell recorded an amazing 24 tackles.  A single game record for the Vikings.  He was elected to 2 pro-bowls and was 2nd team all pro in 1988.  He is a member of the 25th and 40th Anniversary teams and is one of the 50 Greatest Vikings.  After his playing career, Studwell moved into the front office, first as a scout and then becoming Director of College Scouting in 2002.  He retired from the Viking organization, giving 42 years of service, right after the 2019 college draft.

Folks, here are the Top 10 Minnesota Viking Linebackers! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, where do I start?

To me, the biggest oversight was not including Chad Greenway. I know his last couple years weren't the best, but he was a very good LB here. I also would personally include Ed McDaniel, whose perception probably gets damaged by the lack of talent around him in the 90s.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Klomp said:

Wow, where do I start?

To me, the biggest oversight was not including Chad Greenway. I know his last couple years weren't the best, but he was a very good LB here. I also would personally include Ed McDaniel, whose perception probably gets damaged by the lack of talent around him in the 90s.

Where would you put Greenway on the list?  Maybe in the place of Kendricks...but, to me, Greenway is not much different from Winston, Hilgenberg and McNeill...but, the defenses they played on had much more impact in the NFL than the ones Greenway played on. Maybe replace on of them with Greenway?  The reason I included Barr and Kendricks over Greenway is because the 2017 defense was historically good, and they contributed to that defense.  McDaniel is in the same boat as Greenway.  Is it good enough to be a good player on bad, mediocre or just okay defenses?  I know that could also be said of Henderson...but he also played with Kevin and Pat Williams and Antoine Winfield...and in most cases Henderson had more impact on those defenses than Greenway did...in my opinion.

 

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Virginia Viking said:

Where would you put Greenway on the list?  Maybe in the place of Kendricks...but, to me, Greenway is not much different from Winston, Hilgenberg and McNeill...but, the defenses they played on had much more impact in the NFL than the ones Greenway played on.

While I understand where you're coming from, where did those LBs rank on those defenses?

I think it could be argued that at least one or two of them were greatly aided by the fact they played next to Page, Eller, Marshall, Krause, Brown, Bryant and Blair.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's hard to evaluate linebackers based on stats. Their roles can be very different depending on scheme.

Approximate Value (which is based on playing time and contributions, scaled by the quality of the offense or defense's performance) is a decent indicator of quality, as are awards like Pro Bowl selections. Longevity should also play a role.

Here's this top 10 list plus Greenway, with their AV (PFR's Approximate Value) and other details: 

  1. Scott Studwell: career AV 93. Starter for 11 seasons. Peak AV 12 in 1988. Also AV of 9 once, otherwise no other year better than 8. Pro Bowl 1987 and 1988.
  2. Matt Blair: career AV 90. Starter for 8-9 seasons. Peak AV 12 in 1980, single season AV of 10 (3 times) and 9 (3 times) on either side of that. All Pro in 1980, Pro Bowl for 6 consecutive years from 1977-82.
  3. Jeff Siemon: career AV 80. Starter for 8-9 seasons. Peak AV 12 in 1973 and 1975, also 10 in 1976 plus 2 more seasons at 9. Pro Bowl 4 times between 1973-77.
  4. Fred McNeill: career AV 69. Starter for 8 seasons. Peak AV 8, 4 times between 1978-82. No Pro Bowls or All Pro selections. 
  5. Roy Winston: career AV 109. Starter for 12-13 seasons. Peak AV 14 in 1969 (one of the greatest defences of all time). Also had AV of 12 in 1970, 11 in 1971 and 8 in 3 other seasons. No Pro Bowls or All Pro selections. 
  6. Lonny Warwick: career AV 69 (62 with the Vikings). Starter for 5-6 seasons. Peak AV 15 in 1969. Also had AV of 12 in 1970, no other year above 8 (which he hit 3 times). No Pro Bowls or All Pro selections.  
  7. Wally Hilgenberg: career AV 99 (89 with the Vikings). Starter for 8 seasons. Peak AV 12 in 1969 and 1971. Also had AV of 11 in 1970, and AV of 9 twice and 8 twice. No Pro Bowls or All Pro selections. 
  8. Anthony Barr: career AV 46. Starter for 5 seasons. Peak AV 11 in 2017. Also had AV of 10 in 2016, 9 in 2015 and 2018. Four Pro Bowls from 2015-18. 
  9. EJ Henderson: career AV 54. Starter for 7 seasons. Peak AV 11 in 2010. Also had AV of 10 in 2006, 8 in 2007. No other year higher than 6. Pro Bowl in 2010.
  10. Eric Kendricks: career AV 32. Starter for 4 seasons. Peak AV 10 in 2017. Also had AV of 8 in 2016 and 2018. No Pro Bowls or All Pro selections. 
  11. Chad Greenway: career AV 80. Starter for 9-10 seasons. Peak AV 12 in 2012. Also had AV of 9 three times and 8 twice. Pro Bowls in 2011 and 2012. 

Based on those numbers, Studwell is ranked too high here at #1. He played a long time but only had a couple of great years. I always thought he was overrated, a product of an era where the TV cameras loved to zoom in on the MLB's eyes (John Madden over a close-up of Mike Singletary: "look at his eyes!") and talk about him quarterbacking the defense (the 1988 Vikings D was excellent, but that was mostly due to the DL and CBs). Studwell had a great name and beautiful blue eyes but he was only a good LB for most of his career. I think he should drop a few spots here. 

Matt Blair has the best case for the top spot. He had 7 seasons better than Studwell's 3rd best, and is the only All Pro LB the Vikings have ever had. 

Jeff Siemon is a good choice for #2. Four years at an AV of 9 or more, a peak of 12 and 4 Pro Bowls.

I'd also move McNeill down this list. He never had a great season by AV or Pro Bowl standards. His peak years overlap entirely with Matt Blair's and Blair was much more highly thought of. 

Winston, Warwick and Hilgenberg are difficult cases. They all have very high AV thanks to playing on the best Vikings defense of all time (1969), but none of them ever got a Pro Bowl nod, suggesting that their peers didn't think they were at the top of the position group across the league. Winston seems like the best of the trio, and I'd rate Hilgenberg well ahead of Warwick based on their career stats. I never saw them play so I'm not sure how to compare them with Studwell, let alone Barr.

With 4 Pro Bowls, Barr is already tied with Siemon as the 2nd most acclaimed Vikings LB of all time. Barring (aha!) injury, he seems very likely to match or exceed the career AV of everyone on this list except the 1969 LBs and maybe Blair. I'd slot him in just below Siemon for now. 

Henderson didn't have a great career, though he did have one big year with the Pro Bowl nod. Hard choice between him and Kendricks at the bottom of this list. Kendricks is on track for a better career, if he hangs in as a starter for most of his 2nd contract, though he isn't likely to ever win a post-season award. 

Greenway clearly has a better argument for top 5 than being left off the list. Two Pro Bowls ties him with Studwell, and trails only Blair, Siemon and Barr. He had 6 strong seasons, 4 of them with AV of 9+. 

So my list: 

  1. Matt Blair
  2. Jeff Siemon
  3. Anthony Barr
  4. Scott Studwell
  5. Roy Winston
  6. Wally Hilgenberg
  7. Chad Greenway
  8. Fred McNeill
  9. Lonny Warwick
  10. EJ Henderson

HM: Eric Kendricks

Edited by Krauser
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Krauser said:

It's hard to evaluate linebackers based on stats. Their roles can be very different depending on scheme.

Approximate Value (which is based on playing time and contributions, scaled by the quality of the offense or defense's performance) is a decent indicator of quality, as are awards like Pro Bowl selections. Longevity should also play a role.

Here's this top 10 list plus Greenway, with their AV (PFR's Approximate Value) and other details: 

  1. Scott Studwell: career AV 93. Starter for 11 seasons. Peak AV 12 in 1988. Also AV of 9 once, otherwise no other year better than 8. Pro Bowl 1987 and 1988.
  2. Matt Blair: career AV 90. Starter for 8-9 seasons. Peak AV 12 in 1980, single season AV of 10 (3 times) and 9 (3 times) on either side of that. All Pro in 1980, Pro Bowl for 6 consecutive years from 1977-82.
  3. Jeff Siemon: career AV 80. Starter for 8-9 seasons. Peak AV 12 in 1973 and 1975, also 10 in 1976 plus 2 more seasons at 9. Pro Bowl 4 times between 1973-77.
  4. Fred McNeill: career AV 69. Starter for 8 seasons. Peak AV 8, 4 times between 1978-82. No Pro Bowls or All Pro selections. 
  5. Roy Winston: career AV 109. Starter for 12-13 seasons. Peak AV 14 in 1969 (one of the greatest defences of all time). Also had AV of 12 in 1970, 11 in 1971 and 8 in 3 other seasons. No Pro Bowls or All Pro selections. 
  6. Lonny Warwick: career AV 69 (62 with the Vikings). Starter for 5-6 seasons. Peak AV 15 in 1969. Also had AV of 12 in 1970, no other year above 8 (which he hit 3 times). No Pro Bowls or All Pro selections.  
  7. Wally Hilgenberg: career AV 99 (89 with the Vikings). Starter for 8 seasons. Peak AV 12 in 1969 and 1971. Also had AV of 11 in 1970, and AV of 9 twice and 8 twice. No Pro Bowls or All Pro selections. 
  8. Anthony Barr: career AV 46. Starter for 5 seasons. Peak AV 11 in 2017. Also had AV of 10 in 2016, 9 in 2015 and 2018. Four Pro Bowls from 2015-18. 
  9. EJ Henderson: career AV 54. Starter for 7 seasons. Peak AV 11 in 2010. Also had AV of 10 in 2006, 8 in 2007. No other year higher than 6. Pro Bowl in 2010.
  10. Eric Kendricks: career AV 32. Starter for 4 seasons. Peak AV 10 in 2017. Also had AV of 8 in 2016 and 2018. No Pro Bowls or All Pro selections. 
  11. Chad Greenway: career AV 80. Starter for 9-10 seasons. Peak AV 12 in 2012. Also had AV of 9 three times and 8 twice. Pro Bowls in 2011 and 2012. 

Based on those numbers, Studwell is ranked too high here at #1.       

As best as I can tell, the bigger the AV the better the player. Of those you listed, only Winston and Hilgenberg were higher. That says to me his placement isn't too far off, especially considering where you have those two in your own list.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Klomp said:

As best as I can tell, the bigger the AV the better the player. Of those you listed, only Winston and Hilgenberg were higher. That says to me his placement isn't too far off, especially considering where you have those two in your own list.

In terms of his career AV, Studwell was a bit of a compiler. He started for 11 years and was good for most of that time but only had a couple of years where he was considered to be one of the better LBs in the NFC. 

Most all-time rankings try to balance total volume stats over many years versus peak performance in the best season, best few seasons, etc. If you just take career totals for rushing yards, Frank Gore and Curtis Martin are top 5 RBs of all time and Jim Brown doesn't make the top 10. 

So Studwell's cAV of 93 is a little better than Blair's 90, but then Blair had 7 seasons of an AV of 9+ (9 three times, 10 three times, and 12 once), while Studwell only did that twice (12 once, 9 once, no other year higher than 8). That fits with Blair having the All Pro nod, and 6 Pro Bowls to Studwell's 2.

Siemon similarly had 4 Pro Bowls, and 4 seasons with AV of 9+, so even though his career AV was a little lower still (80), I'd still place him ahead of Studwell. 

Barr is early in his career, so I won't argue too hard that he deserves to be in the top 5 already, but had already has 4 Pro Bowls and 4 seasons of 9+ AV. I expect him to add to those totals in the next few years. 

Winston and Hilgenberg (and Warwick) get a lot of AV for being the LBs on the 1969 Vikings defense that was one of the best of all time. More successful units get more AV to divide amongst their players (with portions allotted according to snap counts and stats). AV doesn't understand too much about how good or bad a player was otherwise: for instance Brandon Fusco had a higher AV (8) in 2012, when he was a liability on a good line on a team that won 10 games and made the playoffs, than he did (7) in 2013, when he was very good on a good line on a team that won 5 games. Fusco played better but the team did worse, so his AV suffered. 

The 1969 LBs therefore are bound to have very high AVs just by virtue of playing for such a dominant unit. But those numbers are a little misleading: Warwick's 15 was only tied for the 6th highest total on the defense that year (Page and Eller got 23 and 21, Krause 19, Marshall 17 and Larsen 16), Winston's 14 tied him for 8th, and Hilgenberg's 12 was 10th, last on the defense along with safety Karl Kassulke. 

Contrast that with 2017, when Barr's 11 AV was tied for 4th on the defense (Griffen 15, Joseph 13, Smith 12, Rhodes 11), and Kendricks was 6th. The 2017 defense wasn't an all time great unit like 1969, but it's worth pointing out that Barr was one of the better players on maybe the best defense in the league that year, and went to the Pro Bowl, while none of the higher scoring LBs on the 1969 team earned that honor. 

Point of all those numbers is just that the AV should be placed in some sort of context. 

I'd still put Studwell in the top 5, but it's worth mentioning that he wasn't considered the best LB on the team until circa 1986, when he was already into his 30s. He had a couple of very good years after that, but he wasn't as good a player as Blair, Siemon or Barr at their best. 

Edited by Krauser
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...