Mox Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, NYRaider said: The CP3/Harden was such a terrible fit that they went 65-17 and were 1 game away from the finals. If CP3 didn’t get hurt in game 5 last year the Rockets probably win that series. Except 2020 Russ will be worse than 2018 CP3. Also more expensive and a far worse fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Bullet Club said: Except 2020 Russ will be worse than 2018 CP3. Also more expensive and a far worse fit. But he’s certainly better than current CP3 and Houston was in a bind. They did the best they could and if Harden/CP3 mesh well they can beat anyone in a 7 game series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: But he’s certainly better than current CP3 and Houston was in a bind. They did the best they could and if Harden/CP3 mesh well they can beat anyone in a 7 game series. Sure he's better than CP3 today in a vacuum. His terrible fit makes him a worse player for Houston. They killed any chance they have at winning a title with this move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: Except 2020 Russ will be a worse fit* than 2018 CP3. Also more expensive and a far worse fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Just now, Danger said: No. 2018 Chris Paul will be better than 2020 Westbrook as a player. He was probably better than 2019 Westbrook. Westbrook is declining hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: No. 2018 Chris Paul will be better than 2020 Westbrook as a player. He was probably better than 2019 Westbrook. Westbrook is declining hard. I don't think Russ is declining hard unless you're strictly looking at PPG, and of course a lot of that is due to him giving up a few shots to PG. from 2018 to 2019: Russ:Rebounds, Assists, Steals, Blocks, 2 Point shooting % are all up, with turnovers being down.Shooting percentages are slightly below careers averages. The real headscratcher though is why his FT% fell off of a cliff. Russ is a bad fit with Harden, but to say he's becoming substantially less effective is simply not true. For this whole thing to work it needs to start with Russ being the primary ball handler and having Point guard duties, and also acknowledging that, unless he's wide open, he should not be the one taking any 3s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, Danger said: I don't think Russ is declining hard unless you're strictly looking at PPG, and of course a lot of that is due to him giving up a few shots to PG. from 2018 to 2019: Russ:Rebounds, Assists, Steals, Blocks are all up, with turnovers being down.Shooting percentages are slightly below careers averages. The real headscratcher though is why his FT% fell off of a cliff. Russ is a bad fit with Harden, but to say he's becoming substantially less effective is simply not true. This is factually wrong. Bolded indicates league leading. 2017: 34.6 mpg 31.6 ppg 30.6 PER 55.4 TS% 57.3 AST % 15.9 TO% 112 ORTG .224 WS/48 10.9 OBPM 15.6 BPM 12.4 VORP +12.4 On/Off 6.27 RPM (#3 PG) 2018: 36.4 mpg 25.4 ppg 24.7 PER 52.4 TS% 49.8 AST % 16.4 TO% 109 ORTG .166 WS/48 5.1 OBPM 8.2 BPM 7.5 VORP +12.1 On/Off 5.16 RPM (#5 PG) 2019: 36.0 mpg 22.9 PPG 21.1 PER 50.1 TS% 46.3 AST % 16.3 TO% 105 ORTG .124 WS/48 2.5 OBPM 6.5 BPM 5.6 VORP +6.1 On/Off 2.51 RPM (#12 PG) So you say he gives up points due to Paul George signing. Then why is he significantly less efficient with more help and less usage? He went from leading the NBA in scoring on above average TS% to dropping nearly 9 ppg on historically bad efficiency. Every advanced number has him falling off a cliff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncofan48 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: This is factually wrong. Bolded indicates league leading. 2017: 34.6 mpg 31.6 ppg 30.6 PER 55.4 TS% 57.3 AST % 15.9 TO% 112 ORTG .224 WS/48 10.9 OBPM 15.6 BPM 12.4 VORP +12.4 On/Off 6.27 RPM (#3 PG) 2018: 36.4 mpg 25.4 ppg 24.7 PER 52.4 TS% 49.8 AST % 16.4 TO% 109 ORTG .166 WS/48 5.1 OBPM 8.2 BPM 7.5 VORP +12.1 On/Off 5.16 RPM (#5 PG) 2019: 36.0 mpg 22.9 PPG 21.1 PER 50.1 TS% 46.3 AST % 16.3 TO% 105 ORTG .124 WS/48 2.5 OBPM 6.5 BPM 5.6 VORP +6.1 On/Off 2.51 RPM (#12 PG) So you say he gives up points due to Paul George signing. Then why is he significantly less efficient with more help and less usage? He went from leading the NBA in scoring on above average TS% to dropping nearly 9 ppg on historically bad efficiency. Every advanced number has him falling off a cliff. His usage in 2 seasons ago was 40.2%, last season 32.6% and this past season 30.1%. His usage IS down, but he is putting up higher baseline numbers aside from pure scoring, 3 point shooting percentage and Free Throw Percentage. (I'm not well versed in efficiency stats so if you want to explain these in more detail, I'm all ears). So what's the big issue with most of his numbers being up while his usage is down? Wouldn't that mean he's doing more with less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 15 minutes ago, Danger said: His usage in 2 seasons ago was 40.2%, last season 32.6% and this past season 30.1%. His usage IS down, but he is putting up higher baseline numbers aside from pure scoring, 3 point shooting percentage and Free Throw Percentage. (I'm not well versed in efficiency stats so if you want to explain these in more detail, I'm all ears). So what's the big issue with most of his numbers being up while his usage is down? Wouldn't that mean he's doing more with less? So his usage is down and he's significantly less efficient but turns the ball over at higher % because? Literally every number I posted suggested he's doing significantly less period. The only reason his RPG/APG are up is because he plays more mpg. His PER 36 are 0.1 different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 48 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: Sure he's better than CP3 today in a vacuum. His terrible fit makes him a worse player for Houston. They killed any chance they have at winning a title with this move. How can you say that he's a terrible fit for Houston? We haven't even seen them play together yet. And people said the same things when they acquired CP3. They flipped a dude that didn't want to be there and on his last legs for a former MVP still in his prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, NYRaider said: How can you say that he's a terrible fit for Houston? We haven't even seen them play together yet. And people said the same things when they acquired CP3. They flipped a dude that didn't want to be there and on his last legs for a former MVP still in his prime. Dude. Westbrook and Harden played together for 3 years. They didn't even gel then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossburg Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Thank you, basketball gods, for this dumpster fire that will be seen from outer space. cantwait.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mossburg said: Thank you, basketball gods, for this dumpster fire that will be seen from outer space. cantwait.gif The best part of this is that it's going to give FF Rockets fans hope and we get to watch them die inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 34 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: Dude. Westbrook and Harden played together for 3 years. They didn't even gel then. Oh you mean those 3 years where they won an average of 50+ games every year and went to the NBA finals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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