Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Just now, canadaluvsdallas said:

Oh really? I guess all those 8-8 seasons taught us nothing then. You seem so eager to go back to that hot mess

There is no correlation between those 8-8 seasons and running the ball. 

Because there is almost no correlation between a successful run game and making the playoffs. Or winning games. Or scoring more points for that matter. Hell, its not even highly correlated to getting 1st downs (outside of short yardage). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Give it up dude, Dallas FO isn't trading Zeke. Find a new wet dream.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Matts4313 said:

There is no correlation between those 8-8 seasons and running the ball. 

Because there is almost no correlation between a successful run game and making the playoffs. Or winning games. Or scoring more points for that matter. Hell, its not even highly correlated to getting 1st downs (outside of short yardage). 

Yeah this is the same thought process that made me suffer watching our Run DMC season. Fluff stats and no identity, couldn't produce when it mattered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, canadaluvsdallas said:

You better hope we nail an all around bell cow in the 4th round again or else we are just throwing away seasons after trading Zeke.

Why are we trying to be like all the mediocre run game teams in the NFL that can't produce on the ground consistently like we can.

Theres so many other areas we need to improve yet you want to trade away our greatest safety net for success. Our run game.

Our RB by committee was also the reason for the missed block on Tony Romo that ended his season by yours truly Joseph Randle.

Remember it was the miss block by Zeke who ended Romo's career. Don't blame this on rb by commitee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, canadaluvsdallas said:

Yeah this is the same thought process that made me suffer watching our Run DMC season. Fluff stats and no identity, couldn't produce when it mattered.

You mean, no QB, terrible OL and Defense? 

Because it wasnt the run game that failed us. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, eagles suck said:

Remember it was the miss block by Zeke who ended Romo's career. Don't blame this on rb by commitee

what? how the heck is Zeke responsible for a mono on mono block on a DE Cliff Avril when Romo is trying to throw on the move out of the pocket? Do we even have offensive tackles ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

You mean, no QB, terrible OL and Defense? 

Because it wasnt the run game that failed us. 

I'm actually so happy you brought this up. Notice we lacked an actual threat of a run game that defenses feared and all three aspects of our team fell apart? QB got injuried? OL looked worse? And our Defense was gassed and it looked even worse?

Its easy to find middle of the road RB's. It's not easy to find bell cows. Unless you want to throw a season and pick in the top 10 again. WHICH is how we got zeke in the first place.

Edited by canadaluvsdallas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, canadaluvsdallas said:

I'm actually so happy you brought this up. Notice we lacked an actual threat of a run game that defenses feared and all three aspects of our team fell apart? QB got injuried? OL looked worse? And our Defense was gassed and it looked even worse?

Your fallacy here is that you think the run game dramatically improves any of those other aspects. Which it does not. And its been proven over and over that its significance is so small its hard to even measure. 

There is no correlation between run game and defense.

There is no correlation between run game and pass game.

There is no correlation between run game and pass blocking.

I challenge you to find any evidence that proves me wrong. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

Your fallacy here is that you think the run game dramatically improves any of those other aspects. Which it does not. And its been proven over and over that its significance is so small its hard to even measure. 

There is no correlation between run game and defense.

There is no correlation between run game and pass game.

There is no correlation between run game and pass blocking.

I challenge you to find any evidence that proves me wrong. 

I agree passing game is more important than running game in today's NFL.

This has to do with how game is called though.  The old saying that 3 things can happen when you pass and two of them are bad are simply not even close to true anymore.

1) You can complete the ball.

2) You can incomplete the ball.

3) You can throw interception.

4) You can get illegal contact (automatic 1st down + 5 yards).

5) You can get pass interference (1st + wherever it happened).

6) QB can scramble for plus yards.  Hardest thing to do in football is to tackle a great runner with space in the open field.  

4, 5 and even 6 are what make the modern passing game so much more conducive to moving the football.

But to say there is no correlation between running effectively and anything and everything else is false.  That is like saying body blows or leg kicks are meaningless in fighting because head shots do all the real damage and actually win the fights.  So therefore all fighters should just go for head with every shot.  

One sets up the other.  The more effective it is the more the opponent reacts to it and the more the head shot or the pass opens up and the better head shot numbers look on a sheet.

Having a run game allows you to run clock more efficiently which can be useful depending on situation.  You can also shorten a game if you are lacking talent on one side of ball or other.  

The old Dean Smith 4 corners offense that allows a less talented team to keep game close and hope for some breaks or frustration.  Princeton was famous for it.  No idea why Dean Smith used it since he almost always had most talent.

There are lies, damn lies and statistics.  To say you don't need a run game because of analytics is simply false.  Data is being interpreted incorrectly because but for existence of run game, data would be completely different.

If you came out and passed every single down and never ran it at all, then you could say those conclusions are correct.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

Your fallacy here is that you think the run game dramatically improves any of those other aspects. Which it does not. And its been proven over and over that its significance is so small its hard to even measure. 

There is no correlation between run game and defense.

There is no correlation between run game and pass game.

There is no correlation between run game and pass blocking.

I challenge you to find any evidence that proves me wrong. 

Okay, you seem to be focusing on 1 aspect of the game when it involves the RB position, and that is running the ball. And without delving too far into it, you may very well have a point, statistically speaking.

But what about Elliott's role as a receiver? AND, what he is able to do with the ball after he catches it. Because once he gets into the open field, there is very little blocking.

With that in mind, please consider how many 1 score games we were in last season and how many of those we won, LARGELY do int part to Elliott's performance, not only as a runner but as a receiver as well.

And please do not rely on ONLY statistics. They may read that Elliott only had 3 catches all day for 29 yards, but look WHEN those catches came. 3rd and long deep in our own territory, 4th and 1, OT, just when Dak is about to get creamed for a heavy loss, there is Elliott CONSISTENTLY bailing him out and breaking tackles to get us a 1st down.

This does multiple good things:

1. Sustains drives that could lead to points.

2. Gets us better field position if we do end up punting.

3. Eats up the clock if we have a lead.

4. Keeps our defense fresh or rested while we are wearing down the opposing defense.

If you think I am making this up, just have a look at this video from ONLY last season.

Still think you are easily replacing this guy with a 4th rounder or RB by committee???

C'Mon!!!!! I KNOW you are smarter and more sensible than that.

I don't want the team to be held hostage by Elliott possibly holding out and I do not like the idea of signing him to a 5 year, bank busting deal when we all know the RB position wears faster than any other. But this guy IS the team when things get too rough. He is the outlet, the go to guy, the piece that opens up the game every where else. And if he isn't on the field, we do not any other players dynamic enough to draw the attention of the defense off of Dak. In short, they will pin their ears back and go after our QB for 6 or more sacks a game.

Even with Elliott he has already been sacked 119 times!!!

No, Elliott is just too important to this team.

Now if you are willing to concede a rebuilding process, which is stupid after just winning 2 div titles in 3 years, then get as much as you can and start over. But like I said, that would be stupid. We have a young, stacked team, fresh meat in the coaching department and we just won 2 division titles in 3 years. 

Nope, Elliott is here to stay.

Edited by Rtnldave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Rtnldave said:

Still think you are easily replacing this guy with a 4th rounder or RB by committee???

C'Mon!!!!! I KNOW you are smarter and my sensible than that.

Quite the opposite. I think our reliance on Zeke is one of the many reasons our offense is held back. Which is why we are in so many 1 score games.

We run the ball to much.

Zeke has been mediocre over the 3 years as a WR, although greatly improved last year.

We are atrocious at pass protection.

We havent had reliable pass catching options. 

Dak needs to improve or at least not play as terrible as he did during the 10 game slump. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

There are lies, damn lies and statistics.  To say you don't need a run game because of analytics is simply false.  Data is being interpreted incorrectly because but for existence of run game, data would be completely different.

Nobody is saying the run game has no impact. Its important situationally.  But the Cowboys over reliance on running the ball is one of the many, many flaws we have offensively. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Matts4313 said:

Quite the opposite. I think our reliance on Zeke is one of the many reasons our offense is held back. Which is why we are in so many 1 score games.

We run the ball to much.

Zeke has been mediocre over the 3 years as a WR, although greatly improved last year.

We are atrocious at pass protection.

We havent had reliable pass catching options. 

Dak needs to improve or at least not play as terrible as he did during the 10 game slump. 

So.....and please work with me, I am not being coy, am I to understand that it is our QB and WR options that need to be worked up so we do not rely so much on Zeke. And by that rationale, you want to trade Zeke to acquire more draft picks or players via trade that can come in and perform at higher levels at positions that statistically win more ballgames??? 

Is this correct?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

Your fallacy here is that you think the run game dramatically improves any of those other aspects. Which it does not. And its been proven over and over that its significance is so small its hard to even measure. 

There is no correlation between run game and defense.

There is no correlation between run game and pass game.

There is no correlation between run game and pass blocking.

I challenge you to find any evidence that proves me wrong. 

You seem to forget that the team that wins the run battle wins the game 70% of the time.  Enough said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Rtnldave said:

So.....and please work with me, I am not being coy, am I to understand that it is our QB and WR options that need to be worked up so we do not rely so much on Zeke. And by that rationale, you want to trade Zeke to acquire more draft picks or players via trade that can come in and perform at higher levels at positions that statistically win more ballgames??? 

Is this correct?

1. I am not saying that I want to trade Zeke. I am saying that it is a viable strategy if we can get a good return on him. 

2. I would greatly hope that our OL will improve with better coaching and health. If not, we are effed as we have spent a lot of valuable resources on them. That alone will make QB and RB play dramatically easier.

3. Our QB has already proven when the OL/WR arent trash-tier he can win a lot of ball games. Over 90% win rate when his AY/A is 6+. If trading Zeke meant improving the talent around Dak (or defensively) than it should be done. Right now we have a high potential run game, high potential OL and mediocre/old/unproven/injury prone pass catchers. Lets see how the coaching staff does to prop up our passing game. 

27 minutes ago, The_Slamman said:

You seem to forget that the team that wins the run battle wins the game 70% of the time.  Enough said.

54% of the time. Barely better than a coin flip. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×