25 and Younger: Who ya got?

[Ozzy]

29 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

Patriots have:

Shaq Mason 25

Jonathan Jones 25

Adam Butler 25

Sony Michel 24

J.C. Jackson 23

 

Unknown Non-Rookies:

Ja'Whaun Bentley 22

Duke Dawson 23

Christian Sam 23

Ryan Izzo 23

Isaiah Wynn 23

If one is not including the rookies this up coming year the Patriots are in not way even in this discussion in my view, no way.  Michel, Mason and Jackson are good but no where near top level elite players I feel but will see.  Lucky for them their rookie class could be great with Harry, Damien Harris, Cajuste, Froholdt,Stidham, Joejuan Williams and Winovich. Not to mention if Bill can tap into the untapped talented Obi Melifonwu as a 2nd year guy.  Guess they also have Duke Dawson as a 2nd year guy, but the current rookie class could be awesome that is what they have going for them.

[Thomas5737]

6 hours ago, candyman93 said:

Swap Nick Chubb with Kareem Hunt and I’m taking Cleveland.

If you want Hunt I'd put him over Njoku and keep Chubb. I'd put Ogunjobi over Njoku too even though Njoku is good and should have a great season. CallawayHiggins/Avery/Hunt/Ogunjobi is a pretty good second team.

[Nightime]

Patrick Mahomes, Tyreek Hill, Alvin Kamara, George Kittle

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, Nightime said:

Patrick Mahomes, Tyreek Hill, Alvin Kamara, George Kittle

Are you a New Kansascisco fan too?

Go Saiefniners!

[SBLIII]

12 hours ago, Ozzy said:

If one is not including the rookies this up coming year the Patriots are in not way even in this discussion in my view, no way.  Michel, Mason and Jackson are good but no where near top level elite players I feel but will see.  Lucky for them their rookie class could be great with Harry, Damien Harris, Cajuste, Froholdt,Stidham, Joejuan Williams and Winovich. Not to mention if Bill can tap into the untapped talented Obi Melifonwu as a 2nd year guy.  Guess they also have Duke Dawson as a 2nd year guy, but the current rookie class could be awesome that is what they have going for them.

Mason is elite, the others 2 are not but don't be surprised if Jackson breaks into that category. He had some really good games last year just a bit inconsistent. Michel looks like a top 10-ish RB to me. Great pure runner who had 1,200 yards and 12 TDs in 16 games last year, needs to become a better pass catcher. The rest we'll see.

[tom cody]

The Cowboys for me. 

[Ozzy]

9 hours ago, SBLIII said:

Mason is elite, the others 2 are not but don't be surprised if Jackson breaks into that category. He had some really good games last year just a bit inconsistent. Michel looks like a top 10-ish RB to me. Great pure runner who had 1,200 yards and 12 TDs in 16 games last year, needs to become a better pass catcher. The rest we'll see.

That running game will not be the same without Gronk and Trenton Brown I feel.  Will see, Beck can block at TE well but does not have Gronk's size or strength.  Do still have the FB for sure that helps but again the run game will be different, was never a huge fan of Wynn as a OT and I feel he is more of a guard anyway.  Cajuste should push him big time at that OT spot and same with Dan Skipper if he can get it together.

 

[Calvert28]

I'm taking the Cowboys in this one. 

[SBLIII]

9 hours ago, Ozzy said:

That running game will not be the same without Gronk and Trenton Brown I feel.  Will see, Beck can block at TE well but does not have Gronk's size or strength.  Do still have the FB for sure that helps but again the run game will be different, was never a huge fan of Wynn as a OT and I feel he is more of a guard anyway.  Cajuste should push him big time at that OT spot and same with Dan Skipper if he can get it together.

 

Trent Brown was ok. Slightly worse than Solder. But really nothing that can't be replaced. We'll see how Wynn does but don't be surprised if the Patriots OL is moving DLs off the LOS in the running game again. I'm not exactly sure why you are not a big fan of Wynn as he was one of the top 2,3 tackles in college football and the driving force behind the Georgia ground attack in 2017. Michel and Chubb were running behind him all the time.

[Ozzy]

3 hours ago, SBLIII said:

Trent Brown was ok. Slightly worse than Solder. But really nothing that can't be replaced. We'll see how Wynn does but don't be surprised if the Patriots OL is moving DLs off the LOS in the running game again. I'm not exactly sure why you are not a big fan of Wynn as he was one of the top 2,3 tackles in college football and the driving force behind the Georgia ground attack in 2017. Michel and Chubb were running behind him all the time.

Trenton Brown is a mountain and can physically move people and did, where did they run?  Behind him and Gronk on the end, that side and they got results.  Brown is 6-8 360 with 36" arm length and 10 7/8" hands.  Wynn is 6-3 with 33 3/8 arm length and 8 1/2" hands.  Physically there is a world of difference between the two, that is why I am not a huge fan of Wynn because of that physically profile which is quite small for a OT.  Kevin Beachum is one of the few tackles who are shorter and considered ok, and he is 6-3, Wynn is shorter than that so if he becomes great he will be one of the few tackles at that height to do so, he is simply easier to get around compared to a long armed guy like Brown.  

Will see what Wynn can do but again I feel he is moved to guard if they cannot resign Thuney and I doubt they pay him big bucks so he is probably gone.  

Edited July 20, 2019 by Ozzy

[SBLIII]

5 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Trenton Brown is a mountain and can physically move people and did, where did they run?  Behind him and Gronk on the end, that side and they got results.  Brown is 6-8 360 with 36" arm length and 10 7/8" hands.  Wynn is 6-3 with 33 3/8 arm length and 8 1/2" hands.  Physically there is a world of difference between the two, that is why I am not a huge fan of Wynn because of that physically profile which is quite small for a OT.  Kevin Beachum is one of the few tackles who are shorter and considered ok, and he is 6-3, Wynn is shorter than that so if he becomes great he will be one of the few tackles at that height to do so, he is simply easier to get around compared to a long armed guy like Brown.  

Will see what Wynn can do but again I feel he is moved to guard if they cannot resign Thuney and I doubt they pay him big bucks so he is probably gone.  

Froholdt will succeed Thuney, not Wynn. Wynn is our future franchise OT. He got drafted as such and will play that position.

[Dome]

On 7/17/2019 at 4:22 PM, Ozzy said:

Across the board talent would have to go with the Cowboys, they got it at almost all the positions. Could add Collins at OT and Awuzie as well to that list.  But looking at it more outside of QB the Saints are by far the deepest in terms of overall youth depth, and Michael Thomas is 26 would be case closed if he made that age cut.

Saints:  Alvin Kamara, M. Davenport, R. Ramczyk, M. Lattimore, Marcus Williams, Eli Apple, Anzalone 

 

Sheldon Rankins too... he had 8 sacks last year. It's a shame he'll probably start the year on PUP or maybe even IR.

[Ozzy]

28 minutes ago, Dome said:

Sheldon Rankins too... he had 8 sacks last year. It's a shame he'll probably start the year on PUP or maybe even IR.

Very true about Rankins, he does have a injury history for sure but is a good player when out there for sure. Hell Malcom Brown also could make the list also potentially since he is 25 and a damn good player.  But yeah in terms of pure numbers the Saints have it all the way, could argue other teams might have a better core four or three but Saints have crazy good youth talent that stacks up with any team.  Could easily include TreQuan Smith and if they develop Simmie Cobbs, Alize Mack, Matt Dayes, Humphrey, Ozigbo, Erick McCoy, Porter Gustin, Gardner-Johnson etc.  Heck Von Bell is under 25 also.

 

Hell this just ends this discussion all together with Rankins and Malcom Brown added two very good DTs.  Damn that is a good roster that is stacked with oyng talent.  

 

25 or under:

A. Kamara RB
M. Davenport DE
R. Ramczyk OT
M. Lattimore CB
M. Brown DT
S. Rankins DT
V. Bell S
M. Williams S
E. Apple CB
A. Anzalone LB

 

 

 

 

Damn that is a good roster, basically improved in every area off last year, sure lost Ingram but could be replaced by Murry/Ozigbo/Dayes/Allen.  And lost Unger but got Easton and the fine rookie McCoy.  Give them the Super Bowl now gosh 

[bananabucket]

On 7/18/2019 at 8:32 PM, Ozzy said:

In terms of Leonard, I would be a little shocked if he keeps up the production he had as a rookie.  I doubt he will consistently be that great throughout his career even if the defensive is designed for the LBs to make tackles, teams will figure it out as they did late in the playoffs last year.  Runs to the ball, is athletic but again will be super hard to keep that production up like a Luke Kuechly, a player he is just simply not as good as.  

 

I'm assuming you're referring to the Chiefs game where the Colts D got exposed?  I know the broadcast showed a montage of Leonard getting beat in coverage, and certainly his awareness in zone is the one aspect that he must improve on if he wants to be considered an elite LB (though he's already really good in man which tends to get overlooked).  But in spite of that, he still had 14 tackles and one of his signature clutch FFs in that game. 

Sack production for off ball LBs is hard to maintain but I don't see his production slowing down anywhere else.  He doesn't have to be Kuechly for that to be the case.

[Ozzy]

7 hours ago, bananabucket said:

 

I'm assuming you're referring to the Chiefs game where the Colts D got exposed?  I know the broadcast showed a montage of Leonard getting beat in coverage, and certainly his awareness in zone is the one aspect that he must improve on if he wants to be considered an elite LB (though he's already really good in man which tends to get overlooked).  But in spite of that, he still had 14 tackles and one of his signature clutch FFs in that game. 

Sack production for off ball LBs is hard to maintain but I don't see his production slowing down anywhere else.  He doesn't have to be Kuechly for that to be the case.

I mean teams could find a way to beat that zone defense by just being patient and taking what is given them.  Sure he had a ton of stats that last game but they moved it easily and they could not really stop the Chiefs offense.  The defense is made to funnel everything middle that is why Anthony Walker had a ton of tackles as well.  Would be great if Leonard can keep up the sacks, forced fumbles and interceptions though and keep being that active.  The grind it out run game helps a ton also and to burn up the clock.  They took a lot of teams by surprise last year I think, that will not happen this season.